Tech Issue Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think? - Page 49

**bella** · 30 Jan 2018, 19:14 (Ref:3796957)

worth pointing out that part of that is because they've used the blue shade to hide where it connects to the chassis. if you ignore that it's not really much different to the gp2 one.

chillibowl · 30 Jan 2018, 19:31 (Ref:3796963)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

worth pointing out that part of that is because they've used the blue shade to hide where it connects to the chassis. if you ignore that it's not really much different to the gp2 one.

true true...encouraging though to see that a splash of colour can soften the look if it.

E.B · 31 Jan 2018, 01:08 (Ref:3797030)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

true true...encouraging though to see that a splash of colour can soften the look if it.

Not to mention clever use of lighting to minimise its presence in the (teaser) photos I have seen to date.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Feb 2018, 14:15 (Ref:3799897)

IndyCar tested the Shield or aeroscreen, as they call it, at Phoenix on Thursday and it was in marked contrast to Vettel's three or so laps round Silverstone last year. F1 and the FIA really didn't attempt to test it properly, which they should have, considering the importance of driver safety.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...irst-step-frye

chillibowl · 9 Feb 2018, 15:55 (Ref:3799950)

good to see that he suggests that there were no problems with the 'optics' (which i assume means visibility/blurriness issues). stark contrast to the problems Vettel reported with the quickly abandoned Ferrari solution.

interesting about the reduced airflow and increased heat in the cockpit and need for better ventilation...cant say i have heard that issue raised before...but thats what real world test are all about.

S griffin · 9 Feb 2018, 16:10 (Ref:3799956)

This is because they gave it a proper test, rather than ‘3 laps around Silverstone’

Richard C · 9 Feb 2018, 16:29 (Ref:3799960)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

IndyCar tested the Shield or aeroscreen, as they call it, at Phoenix on Thursday and it was in marked contrast to Vettel's three or so laps round Silverstone last year. F1 and the FIA really didn't attempt to test it properly, which they should have, considering the importance of driver safety.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...irst-step-frye

Positive step forward. If the IndyCar solution proves successful and effective, I wonder if F1 will continue to insist on their own solution vs. looking elsewhere for effective solutions that might be better.

Richard

PS: I can't help but to continue to dig at Vettel and his "dizzy" comment. If they can look through a sharply curved helmet visor without issue, I expect a curved windscreen can be made to have correct optical qualities.

**bella** · 9 Feb 2018, 16:46 (Ref:3799972)

i think they probably could have done with more than one drivers opinion on the shield in the first place.

makes me wonder who owns the companies responsible for making the halos. aren’t there only a few able/permitted to produce them?

eta: video from in-car during the screen test. see for yourself....

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...test-visor-cam

Mike Bell · 9 Feb 2018, 17:20 (Ref:3799982)

Looks OK with a clean screen, but I wonder how it will be affected by oil, insects and dirt during a race? I can’t see how driver removed tear-offs could be utilised, they could only be removed in pit stops.

BTW I’m not anti- just thinking practically...... I hate the halo!

Mike Harte · 9 Feb 2018, 17:42 (Ref:3799993)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Looks OK with a clean screen, but I wonder how it will be affected by oil, insects and dirt during a race? I can’t see how driver removed tear-offs could be utilised, they could only be removed in pit stops.

BTW I’m not anti- just thinking practically...... I hate the halo!

Same as Sports and GTs; pit crew remove during pit stops. Don't forget that the cars often do pit-stops far more often than an Endurance racer, so more opportunities to remove the tear-offs.

**bella** · 9 Feb 2018, 18:06 (Ref:3799999)

to be fair there's normally a bit more time in an endurance pitstop to deal with a windscreen tear-off, but i'm sure they'd figure out an incredibly quick way of removing them from the screen on a single seater.

Sodemo · 9 Feb 2018, 18:13 (Ref:3800004)

The FIA probably has shares in the company responsible for making the Halo.

Richard C · 9 Feb 2018, 18:28 (Ref:3800014)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Looks OK with a clean screen, but I wonder how it will be affected by oil, insects and dirt during a race?

Overall, I suspect it will be a non-issue, but we will see how it plays out in IndyCar.

I don't know how long IndyCar pit stops last. I assume longer than F1 as there probably is more of a limit to the amount of crew over the wall (I have no idea, someone correct me if wrong). So the few seconds it takes to grab the tab on a tear off and pull it off should not impact IndyCar pitstop time. For F1, I expect it would impact it a bit more, but everyone will be in the same boat.

Richard

Akrapovic · 9 Feb 2018, 19:05 (Ref:3800034)

Hey look, windscreens work! Who'd have thought?

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Feb 2018, 19:18 (Ref:3800037)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Overall, I suspect it will be a non-issue, but we will see how it plays out in IndyCar.

I don't know how long IndyCar pit stops last. I assume longer than F1 as there probably is more of a limit to the amount of crew over the wall (I have no idea, someone correct me if wrong). So the few seconds it takes to grab the tab on a tear off and pull it off should not impact IndyCar pitstop time. For F1, I expect it would impact it a bit more, but everyone will be in the same boat.

Richard

The average IndyCar stop is about 8 seconds and only a crew of 6 is allowed over the wall. If the aeroscreen is accepted by IndyCar, a seventh crew member could be designated to either clean the aeroscreen or pull the tear-offs off.

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 9 Feb 2018, 20:41 (Ref:3800063)

Looking at the Ferrari screen in comparison to the Indycar one, I can't find exact camera angle matches but the main frontal vision on the Indycar appears to be through a much flatter (less bevelled) screen.

I would guess that it's the bevel in the F1 screen that would have cause vision distortion issues for Vettel.

GHOGH · 9 Feb 2018, 20:51 (Ref:3800067)

Formula 1 the Halo MB etc
https://youtu.be/er71vu14PAI

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Feb 2018, 21:03 (Ref:3800075)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Looking at the Ferrari screen in comparison to the Indycar one, I can't find exact camera angle matches but the main frontal vision on the Indycar appears to be through a much flatter (less bevelled) screen.

I would guess that it's the bevel in the F1 screen that would have cause vision distortion issues for Vettel.

Shield

Aeroscreen

Matt · 9 Feb 2018, 21:52 (Ref:3800095)

It's almost like they wanted the shield to fail.

F1Guy · 9 Feb 2018, 22:40 (Ref:3800110)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Aeroscreen

It's not called an 'Aeroscreen'. IndyCar used a much more fancier name for it. They called it a 'Windscreen'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

This is because they gave it a proper test, rather than ‘3 laps around Silverstone’

Vettel only did the one lap with the 'Shield' during FP1 at Silverstone 2017. Not three laps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Same as Sports and GTs; pit crew remove during pit stops. Don't forget that the cars often do pit-stops far more often than an Endurance racer, so more opportunities to remove the tear-offs.

Cannot see tear-offs being an option for F1. With sub 2 second pit stops now common in F1, there would not be enough time for a crew member to reach right into the cockpit area, rip a tear-off and move away from the path of the rear wheels in under 2 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

So the few seconds it takes to grab the tab on a tear off and pull it off should not impact IndyCar pitstop time. For F1, I expect it would impact it a bit more, but everyone will be in the same boat.

Richard

In the ultra competitive world of F1, where 0.1 of a second makes a huge difference, everyone will not be 'in the same boat'. You will find drivers (or teams) choosing not the remove a tear-off if it will save them a millisecond. Even if the screen is fairly dirty. This is the likely scenario.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

BTW I’m not anti- just thinking practically...... I hate the halo!

Well I am anti screen. I hate the shield. Hate the Aeroscreen too. But like you, I absolutely hate the Halo the most. They all do not belong in F1. It is a stupid idea, and just a knee jerk reaction by the FiA.

Richard C · 9 Feb 2018, 23:50 (Ref:3800124)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Cannot see tear-offs being an option for F1.

I am not going to quote all your points, but generally agree with your arguments, but feel they don’t support your position. In fact, I think they just reinforce how they probably wouldn’t be a problem. And yes, they would all be in the same boat in that they all would have to deal with the issue. Of course individual situations will impact drivers differently.

If someone feels it’s not dirty enough to be torn off, then leave it alone. It’s not like you have to pull one off at a stop. Anyone who leaves an overly dirty one on just to save a tiny amount of time in the pit (but is then slower on track due to poor visibility) is foolish. Some drivers stuck in tight battles in which they follow others closely may have more problems than someone leading or running alone.

It’s no different than a myriad of other things that factor into how an individual drivers race progresses.

Richard

GHOGH · 9 Feb 2018, 23:55 (Ref:3800125)

I would expect Halo and 'windscreen' to evolve - what is seen in 2018 is unlikely to be the same in 2019

https://youtu.be/OWmfRre3u30?t=7m01s (Massa accident 2009 - quite philosophical in 2017 interview - his lucky unlucky day to survive the accident)

F1Guy · 10 Feb 2018, 09:20 (Ref:3800194)

IndyCar windscreen test, from the drivers point of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAN59VLV_Ww

Watching that video makes me feel dizzy knowing that Ferrari rejected the shield after a single lap and no other team got to test it.

Richard C · 10 Feb 2018, 11:17 (Ref:3800228)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

IndyCar windscreen test, from the drivers point of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAN59VLV_Ww

Watching that video makes me feel dizzy knowing that Ferrari rejected the shield after a single lap and no other team got to test it.

Thanks for the link. It’s very telling (clearly it’s workable from a visual perspective). Reports are that Vettel passed out while watching this!

Richard

Mike Harte · 10 Feb 2018, 11:36 (Ref:3800235)

What is apparent from the outside shots is that the "visor cam" what not in line with the driver's eyes. Dixon was seated well below the top of the windscreen, but the view from the camera was interrupted by the top of the windscreen.

So, what the YouTube demonstrates is not a true visual of the impact of the windscreen.

And the FIA should have used some of those millions of dollars that they received from the sale of FOM to properly evaluate all avenues for stopping the ingress of FOD into the cockpits of cars. They should have never allowed the teams to dictate and test their own handy work.

Yet another case of the team's tail wagging the FIA dog!

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