Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6 Sep 2015, 15:00 (Ref:3571876)   #126
Nikki Katz
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 377
Nikki Katz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It's great to see that now the engine is better than Renault and not far behind Ferrari that the McLarens are chasing Mercedes for the podium on power circuits such as Monza and aren't even remotely fighting the Manors. Well done Honda!
Nikki Katz is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2015, 15:36 (Ref:3571885)   #127
Paradise City
Veteran
 
Paradise City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bhutan
Dublin
Posts: 4,320
Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!
So..Santander and Johnnie Walker are apparently leaving the sport at the end of the year(Daily Mail) taking a whack out of Mclaren's finances whilst a prideful Honda insists on screwing around with this Arai clown. Yeah, Mclaren are seriously becoming unstuck here.
Paradise City is offline  
__________________
If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse.
-Henry Ford
Quote
Old 6 Sep 2015, 17:30 (Ref:3571904)   #128
GT6
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
England
MAIDSTONE, KENT, ENGLAND
Posts: 11,686
GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!GT6 is going for a new world record!
If those two put out all sponsorshp in F1 it will leave a big whole in several other teams finances
GT6 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Sep 2015, 18:23 (Ref:3572972)   #129
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I typically don't go to the BBC for my F1 news, but I found this article quite a good summary plus some good details...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34208407

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 10 Sep 2015, 19:35 (Ref:3572981)   #130
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,422
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Thanks for the link
Adam43 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Sep 2015, 19:49 (Ref:3572982)   #131
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,143
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
I typically don't go to the BBC for my F1 news, but I found this article quite a good summary plus some good details...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34208407

Richard
That's an excellent article, thanks.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 10 Sep 2015, 20:29 (Ref:3572993)   #132
JeremySmith
Veteran
 
JeremySmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
United Kingdom
Austin Texas
Posts: 11,402
JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!
That is a great article, thank you for the link Richard!
At least Honda know what the problems are, I am convinced that they will solve them as they are great engine builders and always look at the long term ..
JeremySmith is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Sep 2015, 08:48 (Ref:3573128)   #133
VIVA GT
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 5,647
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
Yes, a very interesting & reassuring article. Obviously there are problems with the power unit & the chassis, but that explains to me what those problems are, and it looks like the Team (McLaren-Honda) are aware of their problems, and are working towards a solution.
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 11 Sep 2015, 09:59 (Ref:3573135)   #134
mikuni
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 717
mikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wonder why they didn't just say something along those lines from the outset. I hate the mushroom approach to things.

Surely just saying early in the piece that their ERS isn't working efficiently would save face to a certain degree. They could then focus on delivering performance and improvements where they can.

The alternative to this, and apparently the option they choose to go with, is just pretend there isn't a problem, say you're on top of it and that improvements are near. It haas been embarrassing and I'm sure they have done both the McLaren and Honda names irreversible damage in some peoples eyes. I have been a huge fan of both for as long as I can remember and even then I feel they have betrayed me this year. Haha (need to add a laugh in there to show that isn't entirely serious)
mikuni is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Sep 2015, 10:07 (Ref:3573136)   #135
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
Yes, a very interesting & reassuring article. Obviously there are problems with the power unit & the chassis, but that explains to me what those problems are, and it looks like the Team (McLaren-Honda) are aware of their problems, and are working towards a solution.
I don't know why you are reassured, will they have enough tokens to sort their problems out for next year?

I think that Honda and Renault should have a chat and tell the FIA, FOM and FOCA they either get to change their engines to be competitive or they will both walk!
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Sep 2015, 18:57 (Ref:3573235)   #136
Paarma
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Finland
Europe
Posts: 177
Paarma should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
I typically don't go to the BBC for my F1 news, but I found this article quite a good summary plus some good details...
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34208407
Richard
Interesting. It almost seems to me that Mclaren is again overregulating and shooting itself in the foot.
Paarma is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2015, 10:47 (Ref:3573772)   #137
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
I typically don't go to the BBC for my F1 news, but I found this article quite a good summary plus some good details...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34208407

Richard
Now thats an interesting article.......I work in the design and development of automotive air-stream boosting devices, and compressor design is something that I have been handling for a good 6 years, I have worked with all the big compressor design consultancies for automotove based projects, I'm certainly no CFD engineer, but I understand the basics of compressor design in order to not design a turkey of a compressor, we will regularly re-design a compressor more than 10 times just to find an extra 2 or 3% efficiency.

Like the article suggests, it appears that what Mclaren have pushed Honda to do is the basis of Hondas problem......placing both the compressor and exhaust turbine inside the engines V will reduce down OD of the volute scroll for both compressor and turbine to a stupidly small diameter and generally kill the efficiency of both - severley.......a good radial flow compressor is in the region of 80% efficient, if for packaging reasons you need to drastically reduce the OD, the compressor efficiency easily falls to circa 50%, which is the engineering equivalent of falling off a cliff, we all know in F1 just 1% can be the difference between the front and back of the grid. I heard the rumor that Honda are using an axial flow compressor, if so it will be good for flow, but hardly any pressure building potential, no wonder they are on the back foot with a massive power deficit.

Also no wonder Mclaren are being so quiet, it looks like the "extreme" approach as bitten them both on the backside, and the joke being they still entered a year later and made a hash of it.

If you look at what Mercedes have done with the compressor and turbines at the very end of the engine, the volute scrolls are visually very big, they will have hardly any design compromises in this critical region hence a highly efficient boosting system and very powerful engine.
knighty is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2015, 11:56 (Ref:3573785)   #138
Mike Harte
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 5,470
Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
My days of understanding automotive engineering have long, long gone, although I can sometimes understand the fundamentals that underpin it. So, these are uneducated mumblings based on what I could garner fro the reams that have been written in the last couple of years.

It would seem that Mercedes took a unique decision about how they would design their whole power-unit, and, I would guess, that at the time they were crossing everything that the concept would not only work but that it would be better than Renault's and Ferrari's. And boy, was it. However, and apologies to Richard Casto, this is where everything goes pear-shaped.

Because of the restrictive rules and regulations on everything from on track testing to possible re-designs of PSUs, Renault and, to a lesser extent, were stuck with what they started with. In Renault's case (read RBR), and it would seem as though McLaren may have fallen in to the same trap, they decided to try to package everything so tightly that they couldn't have even followed Mercedes' path anyway.

Now we have the stupid position that both Renault and now Honda are stymied, being only allowed to make fairly minor design changes from their original PSUs. I think that it was Renault that said, during the early testing last year, that they much admired the way that Mercedes had designed their power-unit, but that they wouldn't be permitted to entirely copy the concept because of the restrictive rules and regs.

The problem that faces all the PSU providers is the extremely long lead time that they need to design the new units. If the same sort of prescriptive R & Rs had existed in the 60s, I doubt whether the world would have had the joy of seeing the DVF stuck in the back of the Lotus.

I know that money comes into the equation, or at least trying to save it. However, I wonder how much is wasted trying to wring more power out of the units to try to keep up with the Mercs, which may well have been better used to redesign the units. This is why I loved engineering cars that ran in the highly modified classes in the 60s; as long as everything fitted within certain dimensions, then away you go.

There are better ways of controlling costs than being restrictive.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2015, 12:27 (Ref:3573791)   #139
VIVA GT
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 5,647
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
This is all very interesting and based on the last two posts it would appear that McLaren Honda & Red Bull Renault (as it would appear to be a combined Chassis/PSU problem) have both fallen for the same mistake and insisted on a packaging solution that has severely compromised the overall result. Although I'm not aware exactly how the Ferrari turbo is, I'll assume that they have a set-up similar even though it may not be exactly the same as Mercedes.
This shows to me that it is far better for the chassis & PSU designers/engineers to work together instead of one telling the other how to do their job!
The problem now is although we appear to know what is wrong, how can this be resolved? As Mike says, although the semi-frozen design was done in a bit to negate costs, trying to develop their way out of this without a fundamental design change will also cost serious amounts of money and may still not achieve the required results. Although this may not be looked upon as fair to those PSU manufacturers who did get it right from the outset, would a workable solution be for Renault & Honda to 'buy' some special development tokens which would allow such a fundamental chance to the design?
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2015, 15:28 (Ref:3573825)   #140
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,716
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
my reading that article left with the impression that Honda's and Mclaren's issue stem from the two either working towards cross purposes or not communicating well enough together during the development process.

given the fall out between RBR and Renault i suspect they had similar issues as well.

is that something money can fix?
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2015, 15:43 (Ref:3573827)   #141
VIVA GT
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 5,647
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
[QUOTE=chillibowl;3573825]my reading that article left with the impression that Honda's and Mclaren's issue stem from the two either working towards cross purposes or not communicating well enough together during the development process.

given the fall out between RBR and Renault i suspect they had similar issues as well.

is that something money can fix?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure that if the PSU performs well enough to let the chassis win races/the championship (fr RBR or McLaren) then the teams will love the PSU supplier again (no-matter what it costs!).
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 14 Sep 2015, 17:46 (Ref:3573849)   #142
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
This is all very interesting and based on the last two posts it would appear that McLaren Honda & Red Bull Renault (as it would appear to be a combined Chassis/PSU problem) have both fallen for the same mistake and insisted on a packaging solution that has severely compromised the overall result. Although I'm not aware exactly how the Ferrari turbo is, I'll assume that they have a set-up similar even though it may not be exactly the same as Mercedes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
my reading that article left with the impression that Honda's and Mclaren's issue stem from the two either working towards cross purposes or not communicating well enough together during the development process.
I agree with the above and maybe a key thing to consider is that the the two teams who seem to be doing well with the entire new PSU are manufactures who also build their own engines. I would put forward the idea (not a stretch from what is said above) that someone like Mercedes looked at the entire car in a more holistic approach. The aero guys may have pushed for an ever tighter packaging and cooling requirements, but the power guys may have been able to successfully push back and arrive at a workable compromise. Given that Mercedes seems to have gotten it right (designed the engine the way they want) the customer teams receive the benefits as well, but maybe not as well as a fully integrated team (car + power from one source).

Think back to the start of 2014 and all of the issues RBR had. If I am remembering correctly, they had serious issues with cooling (RBR was cutting holes in the body left and right to get things to work). So I can imagine RBR making demands upon Renault that Renault may not have been able to deliver upon. I seem to remember that it is not just tight packaging around the engine, but smaller side-pods to reduce drag, but at the expense of cooling capability (which the engine may not be happy with). So maybe Renault made enough compromises to satisfy RBR demands (design goals) that the overall power unit was/is ultimately a lesser solution. Maybe the same thing happened at McLaren? As the article says, they put large demands on Honda to achieve specific aero goals.

That leaves Ferrari. Given the massive reorganization there, it is hard to know exactly why they are doing good now. A great reorganization?, luck? a bit of both? Did they also have internal battles on balance between aero and power demands? Maybe for the 2015 car they worked together like a team in a way that Mercedes seems to be?

To the point about tokens. I haven't looked at the schedule for how tokens can be deployed in awhile. But if I remember correctly, parts of the design become frozen over time and fewer and fewer tokens are available. So the longer it takes you the get your power unit working right, the less likely you will ever get it working the way you want due to freezes and lack of tokens. But we are only in the second season of using this, so I would think they they still have time to fix it, but it may be another season of problems for Honda and Renault beyond just 2014 and 2015.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2015, 22:00 (Ref:3577605)   #143
TrapezeArtist
Veteran
 
TrapezeArtist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
England
Posts: 1,872
TrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Where To Now For McLaren-Honda

That was a very interesting interview with Ron Dennis on the Beeb. Notably lacking Ronspeak, he nicely explained the difficulties for an engine manufacturer if you don't get it right first time. He didn't mention that he has any solution though.

I think we can now clearly see that the second Alonso-McLaren divorce is imminent. That may be why Ron is keen to keep JB. Whether JB will be so keen is another matter, but he's an affable guy and due a not insubstantial payrise, so I think Jenson will stay. I don't see what Alonso will do though, if he leaves McLaren. There aren't any worthwhile F1 seats open for 2016, and I can't see him following the Webber-route into sportscars. Perhaps he'll just have turn professional as a teddy-thrower.
TrapezeArtist is offline  
__________________
The older I get, the faster I was.
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2015, 22:08 (Ref:3577609)   #144
mikuni
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 717
mikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ron and Alonso have both said they will see out the contract (another two years).

Ron confirmed Buttons contract is there if he wants it (for another year). The only piece of the puzzle we haven't heard is from Jenson saying he will stay.

Last edited by Born Racer; 8 Oct 2015 at 10:27.
mikuni is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Sep 2015, 09:51 (Ref:3577720)   #145
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Has anyone heard if there is any lobbying from McLaren Honda to change the PU development rules? Given their current problems with the "GP2 engine" I would have thought there would at least have been some overtures!
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Sep 2015, 22:26 (Ref:3577839)   #146
TrapezeArtist
Veteran
 
TrapezeArtist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
England
Posts: 1,872
TrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Historically, McLaren have never been too sympathetic to the woes of struggling teams, so they're unlikely to get much support. Even if Ron can swallowenough pride to even attempt to plead the case.
TrapezeArtist is offline  
__________________
The older I get, the faster I was.
Quote
Old 28 Sep 2015, 23:29 (Ref:3577842)   #147
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 23,143
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Has anyone heard if there is any lobbying from McLaren Honda to change the PU development rules? Given their current problems with the "GP2 engine" I would have thought there would at least have been some overtures!
They will soldier on. McLaren have been in F1 for long enough to know that things can go wrong. I remember when McLaren entered the MP4/1E, with the TAG-Porsche turbo engine in 1983. It was a bit of a disaster. However, they turned it around and Lauda won in 1984.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 29 Sep 2015, 01:29 (Ref:3577878)   #148
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Has anyone heard if there is any lobbying from McLaren Honda to change the PU development rules? Given their current problems with the "GP2 engine" I would have thought there would at least have been some overtures!
My thoughts is that while it could happen at any moment, I have to wonder if Honda got as much in the way of extra allowances as they can expect when they negotiated for and received extra tokens much earlier on.

If the deal for the Enstone team and Renaul falls apart and Renault leaves the sport totally AND Honda is still lost in the woods, then I can imagine there being pressure on F1 in general to help prop up Honda to both prevent them from pulling the plug as well as ensure some diversity within F1 from the point of engine supply beyond just Mercedes and Ferrari.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 29 Sep 2015, 01:44 (Ref:3577883)   #149
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
It is really difficult to believe that this disparity has gone on so long.

I guess the enough other runners of the Merc engines are benefitting at the expense of RBR and Renault's problems to keep them onside despite the fact that they are not in realistically in contention to win very often.

So it would appear that the F1 consensus is that the current state is quite acceptable, bad luck Renault and Honda.

P.S. I wonder if the increased cost of the Merc engines is paid for by the improved results?
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Sep 2015, 02:21 (Ref:3577893)   #150
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
So it would appear that the F1 consensus is that the current state is quite acceptable, bad luck Renault and Honda.
F1 could be at a crossroads. Multiple things are on a knife edge right now. If enough fall in the wrong direction then it might force change. If enough fall in the right direction then many who are in control at the moment will claim that "all is OK".

That is why part of me is sadly hoping for disaster.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ghosn: "Renault won't stick around if we can't compete". Knowlesy Formula One 15 28 May 2007 12:20
Winton can’t compete with richer raceways...... retro Australasian Touring Cars. 28 25 Jul 2006 00:33
Can Button Compete with the Likes of Kimi And Alonso marzF1rocks Formula One 22 31 Mar 2006 11:59
Kimi Raikkonen and McLaren - can they continue their current form? Yoong Montoya Formula One 23 1 May 2003 00:26
Can the Pilbeam compete with the Reynard and the MG Lola? H16 Sportscar & GT Racing 8 27 Jan 2003 16:51


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.