Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides MotorsportAds  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 14 Apr 2017, 12:18 (Ref:3726329)   #346
F1Guy
Racer
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 465
F1Guy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridF1Guy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
'Re-badged'?? What?!!
A re-badged 'Mercedes F1 Technology' engine.

Seems as though Honda have finally surrendered. Their stubborn stance on Japanese technology only has got them no where, and they are now working with non Japanese technical assistance. Apparently from Brixworth.
F1Guy is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Apr 2017, 12:33 (Ref:3726334)   #347
VIVA GT
Subscriber
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 2,944
VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!
As I've just read elsewhere 2016 was a rubbish year for retiring. Is it time to re-launch the Webber to Renault thread?
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 14 Apr 2017, 12:48 (Ref:3726340)   #348
spider
Veteran
 
spider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
England
London
Posts: 961
spider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridspider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
A re-badged 'Mercedes F1 Technology' engine.

Seems as though Honda have finally surrendered. Their stubborn stance on Japanese technology only has got them no where, and they are now working with non Japanese technical assistance. Apparently from Brixworth.
If there is any truth to this, those who are local may look out for McLaren / Honda personnel with Mercedes guys over at the George Inn - always used to see the Brawn F1 / Honda guys having lunch there, when that Brawn / Merc deal was coming together...
spider is offline  
__________________
Karting - why are there so many categories!?
Quote
Old 14 Apr 2017, 13:35 (Ref:3726358)   #349
F1Guy
Racer
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 465
F1Guy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridF1Guy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There is a bit of history with Mercedes assisting their rival manufacturers since the hybrid V6 introduction. Mercedes assisted Renault to built a better engine after their disastrous 2014 campaign. This deal was helped because of the Renault-Nissan-Daimler partnership, which was formed in 2010, for their joint road car division.

Mercedes also (apparently) assisted Ferrari in 2015, to which an agreement in principle was rumoured to have been made between Niki Lauda, Sergio Marchionne and Bernie Ecclestone. Apparently for the good of the sport. This deal is something that was not spoken of much, but paddock insiders believe it did indeed happen. Proof of which is now apparent with Ferraris 2017 engine being on par with the Mercedes.

And now the paddock talk is that Honda and Mercedes have just recently begun working together to improve the Honda engine. With an improvement in engine performance expected after the summer break in August. This is probably where the rumours of McLaren seeking out Mercedes engines started a few weeks back.
F1Guy is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Apr 2017, 14:13 (Ref:3726365)   #350
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 14,809
bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
There is a bit of history with Mercedes assisting their rival manufacturers since the hybrid V6 introduction. Mercedes assisted Renault to built a better engine after their disastrous 2014 campaign. This deal was helped because of the Renault-Nissan-Daimler partnership, which was formed in 2010, for their joint road car division.

Mercedes also (apparently) assisted Ferrari in 2015, to which an agreement in principle was rumoured to have been made between Niki Lauda, Sergio Marchionne and Bernie Ecclestone. Apparently for the good of the sport. This deal is something that was not spoken of much, but paddock insiders believe it did indeed happen. Proof of which is now apparent with Ferraris 2017 engine being on par with the Mercedes.

And now the paddock talk is that Honda and Mercedes have just recently begun working together to improve the Honda engine. With an improvement in engine performance expected after the summer break in August. This is probably where the rumours of McLaren seeking out Mercedes engines started a few weeks back.
Is there any evidence to back this up?
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 14 Apr 2017, 14:18 (Ref:3726368)   #351
VIVA GT
Subscriber
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 2,944
VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
There is a bit of history with Mercedes assisting their rival manufacturers since the hybrid V6 introduction. Mercedes assisted Renault to built a better engine after their disastrous 2014 campaign. This deal was helped because of the Renault-Nissan-Daimler partnership, which was formed in 2010, for their joint road car division.

Mercedes also (apparently) assisted Ferrari in 2015, to which an agreement in principle was rumoured to have been made between Niki Lauda, Sergio Marchionne and Bernie Ecclestone. Apparently for the good of the sport. This deal is something that was not spoken of much, but paddock insiders believe it did indeed happen. Proof of which is now apparent with Ferraris 2017 engine being on par with the Mercedes.

And now the paddock talk is that Honda and Mercedes have just recently begun working together to improve the Honda engine. With an improvement in engine performance expected after the summer break in August. This is probably where the rumours of McLaren seeking out Mercedes engines started a few weeks back.
This is all very interesting, but (and please don't take offence) it also seems a bit far-fetched to me.
I am sure that you have reliable sources but I can't see why (unless there are huge amounts of money involved) why Mercedes would want to help a competitor such as Ferrari or Honda although I can understand the Renault thing due to the quoted & already arranged technical alliance between the two companies regarding road cars.
The rumour I find more believable is that Mario Ilien is personally helping Honda (again, involving huge sums of money) but I didn't think that he was involved with AMG Performance Engines (or whatever it's called) who are responsible for the MB powerplants, the company that was originally Ilmor...
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 14 Apr 2017, 15:36 (Ref:3726386)   #352
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 9,182
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
And now the paddock talk is that Honda and Mercedes have just recently begun working together to improve the Honda engine. With an improvement in engine performance expected after the summer break in August. This is probably where the rumours of McLaren seeking out Mercedes engines started a few weeks back.
This was discussed by a Sky person with Eric B during an interview this afternoon after FP1 coverage, and certainly sounds as if it's happening.....
Mike Bell is online now  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 14 Apr 2017, 19:22 (Ref:3726439)   #353
broadrun96
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 3,345
broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
The rumour I find more believable is that Mario Ilien is personally helping Honda (again, involving huge sums of money) but I didn't think that he was involved with AMG Performance Engines (or whatever it's called) who are responsible for the MB powerplants, the company that was originally Ilmor...
And Ilien has retained the special projects side of Ilmor with Penske, and they have assisted with multiple engines including their inhouse projects. To say AMG Performance was called Ilmor is partially correct, in CURRENT references as in since 05 to Ilmor Engineering is that consulting special projects side of the company which was formed after MB took the Ilmor name off their purchase and returned it to Ilien and Penske.
broadrun96 is offline  
__________________
Retired, life is too short to not enjoy it and here we don't enjoy life.
Quote
Old 14 Apr 2017, 19:25 (Ref:3726441)   #354
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 12,924
chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
This was discussed by a Sky person with Eric B during an interview this afternoon after FP1 coverage, and certainly sounds as if it's happening.....
😲
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Apr 2017, 21:10 (Ref:3727859)   #355
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 5,276
chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!
McLaren can't explain "best day" of 2017

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...f-2017-895912/

obviously happy for them but have to admit the headline made me chuckle!
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
What shall we use to fill the empty spaces, where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces in search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar? Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Quote
Old 19 Apr 2017, 22:24 (Ref:3727873)   #356
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,631
S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Let's hope they find out soon. Nothing worse than suddenly you're going better and don't know why
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 19 Apr 2017, 22:38 (Ref:3727877)   #357
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 14,809
bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
And Ilien has retained the special projects side of Ilmor with Penske, and they have assisted with multiple engines including their inhouse projects. To say AMG Performance was called Ilmor is partially correct, in CURRENT references as in since 05 to Ilmor Engineering is that consulting special projects side of the company which was formed after MB took the Ilmor name off their purchase and returned it to Ilien and Penske.
As I understand it, having manufactured engines during the '90s in the CART era, which were badged as Mercedes-Benz, Ilmor Engineering Ltd., entered a partnership with Mercedes to develop engines for both Sauber and McLaren. After the untimely death of Paul Morgan, co-founder of Ilmor in 2001, Mercedes increased its stake until it owned the entire company and renamed it Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines Ltd.

In 2005, Mario Illien in partnership with Roger Penske, finalised a deal to purchase from Mercedes, the Special Projects part of the company which was under contract with Honda Performance Development, to jointly develop the Honda V8 used by the IRL. This new company, was once again known as Ilmor Engineering Ltd. and is totally independent of Mercedes.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 19 Apr 2017, 22:40 (Ref:3727878)   #358
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 2,185
Richard Casto is going for a new world record!Richard Casto is going for a new world record!Richard Casto is going for a new world record!Richard Casto is going for a new world record!Richard Casto is going for a new world record!Richard Casto is going for a new world record!Richard Casto is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Let's hope they find out soon. Nothing worse than suddenly you're going better and don't know why
I read that article (plus the official statement from McLaren on their site) and I think it is more the reverse... It's not that they don't know why it works, but rather why it was failing earlier. Why they have had a string of MGU-H failures may not be fully understood. It seems to be bearing/heat related. So why did it fail earlier and then now they have a problem free day in which they run a race distance? Even then, it is a slight bit ingenuous as I think Honda made some adjustments in Bahrain to see if it would help the MGU-H issue (no idea what they could do onsight) and maybe that helped on the last day.

As I mentioned in the Bahrain testing thread, on the Honda side, they seem to be working on engine mapping. They likely have been quite conservative up to now in attempt to get reliability. Given they are producing faster lap times (fourth fastest today) and managed to do a full race distance at the same time, they seem to be making some progress.

Also... my opinion is that we likely will NOT see any drastic improvements until they release an updated engine (physical changes and not mapping changes). There is plenty of speculation as to when that will be. But I am guessing the Spanish or Monaco GP at the earliest. And this is assuming that they really understand what the problem AND solution is and that whatever they are working on now back at HRD Sakura will have a positive impact.

Richard
Richard Casto is online now  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 20 Apr 2017, 03:33 (Ref:3727906)   #359
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 41,928
GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
As I've just read elsewhere 2016 was a rubbish year for retiring. Is it time to re-launch the Webber to Renault thread?
Yes... with Fernando Alonso as his teammate!!


GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Lawrence Garfield (Other People's Money): "I love money. I love money more than the things it can buy. There's only one thing I love more than money. You know what that is? OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY."
C.D. Bales (Roxanne): "Are we having fun yet?"
Quote
Old 24 Apr 2017, 20:11 (Ref:3728965)   #360
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 14,809
bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!
McLaren are to get a reliability update for the Russian GP. I hope it works.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129143
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
McLaren & Honda back together Alfaholic Formula One 162 8 Jul 2014 20:46
HONDA CIVIC 2013 vs HONDA ACCORD 2000 iceman-1987 WTCC & European Touring Car Series 8 27 Mar 2013 09:29
[Rumours] McLaren and Honda Back Again? Paradise City Formula One 101 4 Feb 2012 00:18
Hayden to Honda GP, B Bostrom to US Honda - Confirmed racer69 Bike Racing 6 16 Sep 2002 04:24


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 19:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.