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Old 19 Apr 2017, 10:40 (Ref:3727728)   #76
gert
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gert should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgert should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgert should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think the accident was more Sainz' fault than Stroll's, but IMO Stroll could have done more to avoid it.

Once commited to the (ill-judged) move, there was little Sainz could do.
Stroll obviously didn't even know Sainz was there.

I agree a bit with the commentators that Williams could and should have told Stroll that Sainz was there.
He could have blocked the inside to prevent the move, or could have been made an effort to avoid the accident.
Now, he rather left a lot of space at the inside.

Still Sainz' mistake, but I think Stroll could and would have avoided it if only he knew Sainz was there.
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 12:18 (Ref:3727743)   #77
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by gert View Post
I think the accident was more Sainz' fault than Stroll's, but IMO Stroll could have done more to avoid it.

Once commited to the (ill-judged) move, there was little Sainz could do.
Stroll obviously didn't even know Sainz was there.

I agree a bit with the commentators that Williams could and should have told Stroll that Sainz was there.
He could have blocked the inside to prevent the move, or could have been made an effort to avoid the accident.
Now, he rather left a lot of space at the inside.

Still Sainz' mistake, but I think Stroll could and would have avoided it if only he knew Sainz was there.
What do you mean move to the inside to prevent the move? Sainz was nowhere near enough to make a legitimate attempt and once Stroll was committed to the corner, there was no way he could get out the way. Sainz was never 'there'
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 13:28 (Ref:3727755)   #78
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Originally Posted by gert View Post
I think the accident was more Sainz' fault than Stroll's, but IMO Stroll could have done more to avoid it.

Once commited to the (ill-judged) move, there was little Sainz could do.
Stroll obviously didn't even know Sainz was there.

I agree a bit with the commentators that Williams could and should have told Stroll that Sainz was there.
He could have blocked the inside to prevent the move, or could have been made an effort to avoid the accident.
Now, he rather left a lot of space at the inside.

Still Sainz' mistake, but I think Stroll could and would have avoided it if only he knew Sainz was there.
I believe this was 100% the fault of Sainz if I we are to assign blame. There was zero chance his attempt was going to work. The argument about there should be a cars width is bogus. In this scenario it is like saying the leading car should always leave a gap for you at the apex so you can dive bomb a corner any time you want. Even if there was a cars width at the apex, I suspect Sainz still would have speared Stroll in the side given his speed and direction of travel. Where would Sainz have tracked out after the apex if Stroll hadn't even been there?

I tend to agree that maybe if Stroll was more aware (and maybe he was?) that Sainz was exiting the pit (or better yet was psychic and know what was going to happen in advance) that "maybe" Stroll could have done something to avoid the ill advised attempt by Sainz and yet retain his position. My opinion is that Stroll did nothing wrong given what he knew going into that corner. You can't drive defensively and timidly all the time assuming the guy behind you is going to do something crazy and take you out.

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Old 19 Apr 2017, 15:23 (Ref:3727771)   #79
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RWill2073 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRWill2073 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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A world of difference between taking the pole and winning the race.
Well, one he's allowed to do. The other he has to move over for Lewis at this point....

Steve matchett said it during the broadcast. The one place he can show his value to the team without team orders getting in the way, is qualifying. Showing he's got the pace is all he is likely allowed to do at this point.

Why did they start him with poorly pressured tires? Why are we not mentioning the fact that he lost 7 or so seconds in a pit stop?
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 15:39 (Ref:3727778)   #80
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for sure full blame goes to Sainz for the incident but i sort of see with where gert is coming from.

Stroll has more to lose so while he has no blame for the corner incident surely he has some responsibility in getting his car to the checkered flag for the first time.

hindsight for sure, but looking back and if he had it over should he have given up that corner/line, let Sainz overshoot and undercut for position into the next corner, used his warmer tires, looked for an opportunity later in the lap etc?

obviously there is an issue of what Stroll saw or didnt see/what info his team should have given him but there is a better way to defend for position against a car screaming out of the pits on cold tires imo.

definitely a learning experience for the rookie.
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 18:04 (Ref:3727808)   #81
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Why did they start him with poorly pressured tires? Why are we not mentioning the fact that he lost 7 or so seconds in a pit stop?

Ah, the conspiracy theories! After just three races.... Could be a record!
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 18:31 (Ref:3727823)   #82
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I was initially upset that Bottas had to move over for Hamilton. I am not a fan of team orders. But... I think Hamilton was faster at that point in the race as Bottas was having issues (self inflicted, car issues, setup issues, strategy issues, maybe some combo of the above). So Mercedes felt that Hamilton might have been able to run down Vettel and score more points for the team. So they allowed him to move ahead. I don't think it was to just allow Lewis to trade positions to score more points than Bottas.

I will say, it was likely a much easier decision (and thing to do) for them to ask Bottas to give up the position than it would have been if they had been asking Hamilton to give up the position. There is clearly an implied pecking order within the team. I fully expect Hamilton will complain more than Bottas might if/when asked to move aside. But as long as Bottas gets an equal opportunity to shine (same development parts, etc.) I think that is fair enough. I am not particularly a Mercedes fan, but they do seem to try to do the right thing when it comes to their drivers. But it can be difficult for them to do so when under pressure/stress so it can be awkward at times (i.e. last year when asking Hamilton to speed up or whatever it was they did).

I don't see team orders happening unless we see something like in Bahrain (one driver faster than the other and allowing the pass can increase points for the "team") or later in the season in which one of the two pulls ahead in the points and they start to back that driver over the other. If Hamilton has a bad season (reliability, whatever) and Bottas does well, I can see them backing Bottas even if that means Lewis may be asked to allow a pass to happen.

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Old 19 Apr 2017, 19:04 (Ref:3727834)   #83
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Ah, the conspiracy theories! After just three races.... Could be a record!
They were bubbling under the surface desperate to get out.

They just did something sensible. Except too late! Too late to maximise their chances and too late to really demonstrate favouritism. They didn't dare to split strategies when Vettel went in early. Trying to be too fair.

Over the years this team has demonstrated they are "fair". Stupidly and to a fault.
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 22:43 (Ref:3727880)   #84
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RWill2073 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRWill2073 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Ah, the conspiracy theories! After just three races.... Could be a record!
Yeah, that probably came across as too conspiracy-ish. I know they didn't sabotage him or something.
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Old 20 Apr 2017, 16:57 (Ref:3727994)   #85
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But it can be difficult for them to do so when under pressure/stress so it can be awkward at times (i.e. last year when asking Hamilton to speed up or whatever it was they did).
I agree with most of what you say, but how was asking Hamilton to race last year "awkward"? See, that's the root of all unfairness in Mercedes. Hamilton can do whatever he wants - even blatantly refuse to race and risk a pretty much secured 1-2 finish for the team, and he gets away with it. I even wouldn't be shocked if he would have gladly made sure no Mercedes finished. Paddy Lowe left the team, for whatever reason, and I think it's actually hurt the team with their race strategy. But whatever, as long as Lewis is happy. I can't call that "doing the right thing".

And of course Lewis's fans would say you have to do whatever you can to win. But then why should have Rosberg let Lewis through in Monaco? Do people realize that if he didn't, maybe Lewis might not have had enough points to get his chance to win by slowing down in the last race? Yeah, maybe Mercedes would not have won the race, but how is this different than risking the win in the last race? It was more than obvious by Monaco that Mercedes would get the constructor's and driver's title.
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Old 20 Apr 2017, 18:44 (Ref:3728008)   #86
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I agree with most of what you say, but how was asking Hamilton to race last year "awkward"?
I don't want to get too much into the entire situation with Nico and Lewis at the end of the year, but what I was trying to talk to was that...

If you are a team that doesn't issue team orders on a regular basis, when you do, you may run into problems. Such as are you actually doing the right thing, are you asking/ordering correctly, will it be a shock for the driver? All of that for me was wrapped up into my "awkward" comment. But if you do it on a regular basis, you probably get good at it, and know what to expect from everyone involved.

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Old 20 Apr 2017, 18:57 (Ref:3728011)   #87
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The lesson to be learned is don't listen to what the fans are wittering on about. Run your team how you want to.
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