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Old 14 Apr 2017, 13:18 (Ref:3726329)   #346
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'Re-badged'?? What?!!
A re-badged 'Mercedes F1 Technology' engine.

Seems as though Honda have finally surrendered. Their stubborn stance on Japanese technology only has got them no where, and they are now working with non Japanese technical assistance. Apparently from Brixworth.
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 13:33 (Ref:3726334)   #347
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As I've just read elsewhere 2016 was a rubbish year for retiring. Is it time to re-launch the Webber to Renault thread?
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 13:48 (Ref:3726340)   #348
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A re-badged 'Mercedes F1 Technology' engine.

Seems as though Honda have finally surrendered. Their stubborn stance on Japanese technology only has got them no where, and they are now working with non Japanese technical assistance. Apparently from Brixworth.
If there is any truth to this, those who are local may look out for McLaren / Honda personnel with Mercedes guys over at the George Inn - always used to see the Brawn F1 / Honda guys having lunch there, when that Brawn / Merc deal was coming together...
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 14:35 (Ref:3726358)   #349
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There is a bit of history with Mercedes assisting their rival manufacturers since the hybrid V6 introduction. Mercedes assisted Renault to built a better engine after their disastrous 2014 campaign. This deal was helped because of the Renault-Nissan-Daimler partnership, which was formed in 2010, for their joint road car division.

Mercedes also (apparently) assisted Ferrari in 2015, to which an agreement in principle was rumoured to have been made between Niki Lauda, Sergio Marchionne and Bernie Ecclestone. Apparently for the good of the sport. This deal is something that was not spoken of much, but paddock insiders believe it did indeed happen. Proof of which is now apparent with Ferraris 2017 engine being on par with the Mercedes.

And now the paddock talk is that Honda and Mercedes have just recently begun working together to improve the Honda engine. With an improvement in engine performance expected after the summer break in August. This is probably where the rumours of McLaren seeking out Mercedes engines started a few weeks back.
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 15:13 (Ref:3726365)   #350
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There is a bit of history with Mercedes assisting their rival manufacturers since the hybrid V6 introduction. Mercedes assisted Renault to built a better engine after their disastrous 2014 campaign. This deal was helped because of the Renault-Nissan-Daimler partnership, which was formed in 2010, for their joint road car division.

Mercedes also (apparently) assisted Ferrari in 2015, to which an agreement in principle was rumoured to have been made between Niki Lauda, Sergio Marchionne and Bernie Ecclestone. Apparently for the good of the sport. This deal is something that was not spoken of much, but paddock insiders believe it did indeed happen. Proof of which is now apparent with Ferraris 2017 engine being on par with the Mercedes.

And now the paddock talk is that Honda and Mercedes have just recently begun working together to improve the Honda engine. With an improvement in engine performance expected after the summer break in August. This is probably where the rumours of McLaren seeking out Mercedes engines started a few weeks back.
Is there any evidence to back this up?
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 15:18 (Ref:3726368)   #351
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There is a bit of history with Mercedes assisting their rival manufacturers since the hybrid V6 introduction. Mercedes assisted Renault to built a better engine after their disastrous 2014 campaign. This deal was helped because of the Renault-Nissan-Daimler partnership, which was formed in 2010, for their joint road car division.

Mercedes also (apparently) assisted Ferrari in 2015, to which an agreement in principle was rumoured to have been made between Niki Lauda, Sergio Marchionne and Bernie Ecclestone. Apparently for the good of the sport. This deal is something that was not spoken of much, but paddock insiders believe it did indeed happen. Proof of which is now apparent with Ferraris 2017 engine being on par with the Mercedes.

And now the paddock talk is that Honda and Mercedes have just recently begun working together to improve the Honda engine. With an improvement in engine performance expected after the summer break in August. This is probably where the rumours of McLaren seeking out Mercedes engines started a few weeks back.
This is all very interesting, but (and please don't take offence) it also seems a bit far-fetched to me.
I am sure that you have reliable sources but I can't see why (unless there are huge amounts of money involved) why Mercedes would want to help a competitor such as Ferrari or Honda although I can understand the Renault thing due to the quoted & already arranged technical alliance between the two companies regarding road cars.
The rumour I find more believable is that Mario Ilien is personally helping Honda (again, involving huge sums of money) but I didn't think that he was involved with AMG Performance Engines (or whatever it's called) who are responsible for the MB powerplants, the company that was originally Ilmor...
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 16:36 (Ref:3726386)   #352
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And now the paddock talk is that Honda and Mercedes have just recently begun working together to improve the Honda engine. With an improvement in engine performance expected after the summer break in August. This is probably where the rumours of McLaren seeking out Mercedes engines started a few weeks back.
This was discussed by a Sky person with Eric B during an interview this afternoon after FP1 coverage, and certainly sounds as if it's happening.....
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 20:22 (Ref:3726439)   #353
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The rumour I find more believable is that Mario Ilien is personally helping Honda (again, involving huge sums of money) but I didn't think that he was involved with AMG Performance Engines (or whatever it's called) who are responsible for the MB powerplants, the company that was originally Ilmor...
And Ilien has retained the special projects side of Ilmor with Penske, and they have assisted with multiple engines including their inhouse projects. To say AMG Performance was called Ilmor is partially correct, in CURRENT references as in since 05 to Ilmor Engineering is that consulting special projects side of the company which was formed after MB took the Ilmor name off their purchase and returned it to Ilien and Penske.
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 20:25 (Ref:3726441)   #354
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This was discussed by a Sky person with Eric B during an interview this afternoon after FP1 coverage, and certainly sounds as if it's happening.....
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 22:10 (Ref:3727859)   #355
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McLaren can't explain "best day" of 2017

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...f-2017-895912/

obviously happy for them but have to admit the headline made me chuckle!
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 23:24 (Ref:3727873)   #356
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Let's hope they find out soon. Nothing worse than suddenly you're going better and don't know why
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 23:38 (Ref:3727877)   #357
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And Ilien has retained the special projects side of Ilmor with Penske, and they have assisted with multiple engines including their inhouse projects. To say AMG Performance was called Ilmor is partially correct, in CURRENT references as in since 05 to Ilmor Engineering is that consulting special projects side of the company which was formed after MB took the Ilmor name off their purchase and returned it to Ilien and Penske.
As I understand it, having manufactured engines during the '90s in the CART era, which were badged as Mercedes-Benz, Ilmor Engineering Ltd., entered a partnership with Mercedes to develop engines for both Sauber and McLaren. After the untimely death of Paul Morgan, co-founder of Ilmor in 2001, Mercedes increased its stake until it owned the entire company and renamed it Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines Ltd.

In 2005, Mario Illien in partnership with Roger Penske, finalised a deal to purchase from Mercedes, the Special Projects part of the company which was under contract with Honda Performance Development, to jointly develop the Honda V8 used by the IRL. This new company, was once again known as Ilmor Engineering Ltd. and is totally independent of Mercedes.
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Old 19 Apr 2017, 23:40 (Ref:3727878)   #358
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Let's hope they find out soon. Nothing worse than suddenly you're going better and don't know why
I read that article (plus the official statement from McLaren on their site) and I think it is more the reverse... It's not that they don't know why it works, but rather why it was failing earlier. Why they have had a string of MGU-H failures may not be fully understood. It seems to be bearing/heat related. So why did it fail earlier and then now they have a problem free day in which they run a race distance? Even then, it is a slight bit ingenuous as I think Honda made some adjustments in Bahrain to see if it would help the MGU-H issue (no idea what they could do onsight) and maybe that helped on the last day.

As I mentioned in the Bahrain testing thread, on the Honda side, they seem to be working on engine mapping. They likely have been quite conservative up to now in attempt to get reliability. Given they are producing faster lap times (fourth fastest today) and managed to do a full race distance at the same time, they seem to be making some progress.

Also... my opinion is that we likely will NOT see any drastic improvements until they release an updated engine (physical changes and not mapping changes). There is plenty of speculation as to when that will be. But I am guessing the Spanish or Monaco GP at the earliest. And this is assuming that they really understand what the problem AND solution is and that whatever they are working on now back at HRD Sakura will have a positive impact.

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Old 20 Apr 2017, 04:33 (Ref:3727906)   #359
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As I've just read elsewhere 2016 was a rubbish year for retiring. Is it time to re-launch the Webber to Renault thread?
Yes... with Fernando Alonso as his teammate!!


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Old 24 Apr 2017, 21:11 (Ref:3728965)   #360
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McLaren are to get a reliability update for the Russian GP. I hope it works.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129143
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