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Old 27 Jan 2016, 15:31 (Ref:3608488)   #1
MarkBev
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BSCC regs for late 70s

Looking for some help from the forum.

I've recently got hold of one of the Hughes of Beaconsfield Celicas that ran in the 1979 round of the BSCC, and the first part of the 'return to track' process is the HTP.

As discussed on other threads, this championship was run under the Group 1 umbrella, but with a few 'series specific' rules or allowances, particularly the wheels (we reckon)

We know both cars ran all the races on chunky little red Minilites.....




But we also know they weren't homologated by Toyota, and at the moment my MSA inspector for the HTP says we can't use them unless we can find a set of the rules for the Championship allowing their use.

The 79 Blue Book, incidentally, says, referring to Touring Cars..."Appendix J Group 1 and modifications as defined in regulations available on application"

Hopefully someone reading the forum once applied for these regulations, and still has a copy.
Your help would be very much appreciated.

Mark
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Old 27 Jan 2016, 15:37 (Ref:3608489)   #2
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A similar problem to mine with my Works Rover. The BSCC regs were based on the homologation papers plus any homologated mods. Ford f'rinstance homologated the IDA as an "export" option. They also inserted 7" rims.

Rover OTOH came along in 1980 and homologated very little. They relied on the Blue Book and App J. Now the MSA is effectively denying all knowledge of the class. Only Goodwood and MRL currently recognise its existence.

I do know that the FIA is trying to sort something out but with all due credit to them, they are also struggling to resolve it.

Good luck with your quest. As for me

Edit. Welcome to the forum.
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Old 28 Jan 2016, 14:45 (Ref:3608708)   #3
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Just a thought, but have you considered running the Celica in HSCC 70s Roadsports?

That way, you don't need a HTP. You can run as an "Invitation" for one or two races without needing to comply with the HSCC regs, assuming the HSCC say yes to a polite request to take part.
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Old 28 Jan 2016, 15:53 (Ref:3608721)   #4
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Thanks Peter, does it seem odd to you that this very high profile series ran for about seven years under it's own set of rules, yet nobody seems to have a copy of them?
Either there's some sort of conspiracy, or the rules were more of a 'concept'......a bit like the horizon.

And thanks for the suggestion Graham, but the fact is, although the car is very correct and unmolested, it's a long way from being a race car, and I've yet to think about where to race it.
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Old 30 Jan 2016, 13:47 (Ref:3609242)   #5
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Thanks Peter, does it seem odd to you that this very high profile series ran for about seven years under it's own set of rules, yet nobody seems to have a copy of them?
Either there's some sort of conspiracy, or the rules were more of a 'concept'......a bit like the horizon.

And thanks for the suggestion Graham, but the fact is, although the car is very correct and unmolested, it's a long way from being a race car, and I've yet to think about where to race it.
Mark,

All the rules of the BSCC are in the RAC so-called "Blue Book" which was edited as for the FIA Yearbook every year with the regulations included.
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Old 1 Feb 2016, 11:10 (Ref:3610472)   #6
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Louis, above is a scan of the relevant 1979 RAC Blue Book, and half way down the right hand side you'll see the rather cryptic Touring Cars description, I assume I have the correct book?
At the moment this is the closest I've got, and I feel it's unlikely to impress the FIA.
Any more ideas?.................Please!
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Old 3 Feb 2016, 11:25 (Ref:3611190)   #7
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Louis, above is a scan of the relevant 1979 RAC Blue Book, and half way down the right hand side you'll see the rather cryptic Touring Cars description, I assume I have the correct book?
At the moment this is the closest I've got, and I feel it's unlikely to impress the FIA.
Any more ideas?.................Please!
From 1980 there were some Entrants Eligibility Declaration made by the RAC and the teams to define the cars properly with the references to what was "as from" the FIA Grp 1 Homologation and what was allowed and on the car from the BSCC rules. Other than that, I have the full one from 1981 and 1982 which were fully included in the RAC book and pretty much don't change from one year to the other.

Best would be to ask the MSA for copies ?
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Old 3 Feb 2016, 11:45 (Ref:3611193)   #8
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Thanks Louis, but I'm confident my inspector and the FIA will only accept 1979 relevant paperwork, even if nothing had changed through 79 to 82.

I've spoken to the MSA on two separate occasions on this matter, and both times they admitted they'd have the necessary rules and regs somewhere, but they wouldn't know how to find them and they wouldn't try.

Chocolate teapots come to mind.
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Old 3 Feb 2016, 12:22 (Ref:3611200)   #9
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Originally Posted by MarkBev View Post
Looking for some help from the forum.

We know both cars ran all the races on chunky little red Minilites.
But we also know they weren't homologated by Toyota, and at the moment my MSA inspector for the HTP says we can't use them unless we can find a set of the rules for the Championship allowing their use.
Mark
Mark, I'm interpreting the above as saying that you can't use the wheels on an HTP application, not that you wouldn't be able to race on them.

If that is all that is different to the homologation, could you not fit correct wheels for the HTP? Looking beyond that, I would be surprised if any race series organiser turned the car away because you run the historically correct wheels, even if different to the homologated ones. Motor Racing Legends, for instance, now seem to be aware of the complications surrounding BSCC regs.

Another thought regarding the search for said Regulations- the RAC Club in Pall Mall has the most comprehensive racing / motoring archive and library of anywhere. I'm wondering if they could be lurking there?

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Old 3 Feb 2016, 12:55 (Ref:3611204)   #10
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Mike....funnily enough we were going to present the HTP form with a choice of photos, one with the red Minilites on and the other with standard steels.
We then realised the required 'period' photo would only ever show the car on the Minilites, and we thought this would queer the pitch with the FIA...so I thought..."easy, we'll just find proof they were used legally and that prevents any confusion"
I'll admit, it's now turned into a bit of a crusade, an interesting one though.
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Old 3 Feb 2016, 13:01 (Ref:3611207)   #11
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And thanks for the tip re the RAC Club, I'll fire an E Mail off forthwith.
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Old 3 Feb 2016, 14:02 (Ref:3611233)   #12
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I've been in the library (as a guest ) and it is very impressive. They have all the old blue books and other relevant publications, but I would have thought someone would have already checked for the BSCC stuff..... It may be that only way to find out is visit, and for that you may need a member to invite you as their guest. Not sure if they let 'anyone' in for research.

Not sure if period pic would queer your pitch if different wheels. Check with inspector, or if Louis reads this, he may know. I thought main idea of period proof photo was for livery / colour scheme, but that may be wide of the mark...

Good luck, and I love the car!
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Old 3 Feb 2016, 14:18 (Ref:3611239)   #13
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Old 3 Feb 2016, 16:25 (Ref:3611284)   #14
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I've sent an "official" email to the RAC Librarian. Let's hope they've kept something......!
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Old 3 Feb 2016, 16:47 (Ref:3611290)   #15
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Many thanks Louis.....fingers crossed.
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