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Old 4 Feb 2016, 15:08 (Ref:3611594)   #16
MarkBev
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Just to keep the juices flowing, and in an effort to prompt anyone who might have been part of the 74-82 Gp 1 (+ a half) regs, to rummage through their files and check for period paperwork, here's a cracking shot of Win Percy and Richard Lloyd knocking lumps out of each other at Mallory 79.
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Old 9 Feb 2016, 09:34 (Ref:3613322)   #17
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We're in touch with the RAC Library, they have all blue books available, then, let's see if they have the copies of the regulations somewhere as well !

Will keep you posted.
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Old 10 Feb 2016, 10:45 (Ref:3613610)   #18
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Many thanks for your continued help Louis.

Mark
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Old 17 Feb 2016, 13:26 (Ref:3615443)   #19
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Well, had a feedback from the RAC Library, it would appear that only the 1980 and 1981 regulations of the BSCC were published in the so-called "RAC Blue Book" in period.

There are some fragments available in other places but not all. And we are investigating other sources as well so I will keep you updated...!
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Old 17 Feb 2016, 13:47 (Ref:3615455)   #20
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Thanks for checking anyway, Louis! It was worth a shot...

As I understand it, what's needed are the individual manufacturers supplementary homologation papers? It was suggested to me that only those for the Capri are in the public domain.....

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Old 17 Feb 2016, 15:05 (Ref:3615476)   #21
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Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
Thanks for checking anyway, Louis! It was worth a shot...

As I understand it, what's needed are the individual manufacturers supplementary homologation papers? It was suggested to me that only those for the Capri are in the public domain.....

Mike,

there were regulations based on the official FIA Homologations and what was FURTHER permitted or not, then came in the late years (definitely 1980/81) the Entrants Eligibility Declarations which detailed the cars as they were with more details.

At the moment, I've only seen the Capri one and I'm chasing others as well as the general ruling.

Cheers, Louis.
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Old 18 Feb 2016, 16:28 (Ref:3615762)   #22
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Thanks Gentlemen....it does, indeed, seem that the 1979 regs are not really available....however, the car did compete in a few rounds of the 1980 BSCC.....and these regs are (as you say Louis) printed in the Blue Book.

We'll therefore build the car to these, they were probably pretty much the same anyway.

We did track down a full set of 1980 regs (together with amendments) before they got into the Blue Book, and this is the first page. It maybe of interest.
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Old 28 Mar 2017, 10:37 (Ref:3722108)   #23
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Guess we need to find an RAC member with some spare time!
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Old 29 Mar 2017, 15:25 (Ref:3722432)   #24
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Ian,

What you need is what I had to do. I had to find documentary evidence in the form of magazine articles with pictures, to demonstrate that the car ran as it is now.

The Blue Book provides the basics for the permitted mods but it doesn't specify what parts you can use thus whilst it says you can change the carb as long as there are no more chokes, I had to demonstrate that the IDA was what the Rover ran in period. Oddly enough it was a French magazine from that time that had the proof.

There may also be issues where we want to run what is homologated but was never run on the car. It would comply with the period regs but would not meet, as I understand it, the App K requirements for the car to run as in period. And here I'm talking about the particular car not the model. If you build a replica to the regs then as long as you aren't trying to make it a copy of the original car I suspect you can use the homologated parts. Again I'm somewhat uncertain here.

It's not an easy task by any means and in this respect the FIA deserves a pat on the back for listening to those of us who enjoyed this period and have now provided a means for us to get the cars recognized. Believe me I know the pain some of them have gone through to get this to where it is right now.
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 12:33 (Ref:3723700)   #25
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Well, as a few folk predicted, the whole HTP process has ground to a shuddering halt.....
.....after hours of research, and pestering of people in the know, countless photographs and draft forms, my MSA Registrar has just given up and stopped all communication.
A quick call to the MSA reveals they intend to keep the few hundred quid they charged for assigning a number to me.... Better luck next time.
Having raced under the MSA banner for the best part of thirty years I wasn't expecting quite such uselessness....maybe I should have been less nave and listened to the cynics in the first place.
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 13:00 (Ref:3723705)   #26
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Tell them to keep it open and keep looking.
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 13:07 (Ref:3723708)   #27
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Is you car a 1600 TA 40? Do you apply for Group 1 or Group 2?
In your homologation form you have several parts homologated in Grp2. The evidences you have already collected should be from cars used in period during international races (check if Spa 24 Hours are considered as international). The mods must have been legally used in period.
As suggested by Peter, be patient this forum is famous …
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 14:18 (Ref:3723716)   #28
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Yes Gerard...it's a 1600 TA40.....and I, like a few forum subscribers before me quickly realised we were going to get nowhere with the Gp1.5 regs that the BSCC ran in the 70s.......

......like the horizon, they are more of a concept than a reality!

So I suggested we HTP the car as a standard Gp 1....and we put on the cast manifold on, the 14'' steels etc, and took a load more photos, and we get this back....
First you say, this is an old BSCC car, a Group 1 car. Then you don't understand, why we don't accept it as a group 1 car.
If this is an original 1979 race car, where is then the homologation form from period ?
I thought you could HTP any car in any group category, provided you adhered to the rules and regs of the stated group....
After all, like most tin top race cars, this car was originally a road car.
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 14:58 (Ref:3723722)   #29
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I see … Well I think I see ! Your homologation form is 5704 then. If you put your Celica under its Group 1 form your ASN shouldn't refuse the HTP. This case is clearly identified in the appendix K, you can then ask officially the FIA some help or probably someone on the forum will help you directly.
Then, there are rules and then… there are rules. Always bear in mind that its up to any organiser to put any car in any category during its meeting.
Several options: or you have an HTP for a Group 1 and race it compliant on a Group 1,5 grid and you won't be competitive. Or you have it homologated in Group 2 and negotiate with each organiser to race with the others BTCC cars or Grp 1,5 whatever they are called. If you're lucky the BTCC form your car had in period is slightly less developed or equivalent to a Group 2.
It seems you have enough documents to bring clues of the modifications used legally in period during international meetings. Last year I drove my Capri under Group 1 form but had the surprise to be mixed with Grp 1,5. In this case you can do nothing but stay at home specially when the particular regulation says groupe 1 and affiliated… About this I would say its all my fault because I dont read carefully enough the different regulations.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 17:12 (Ref:3724193)   #30
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I think you got an answer from the FIA or your MSA by now. The first page of your HTP should show category BTCC country GB. Is that correct Peter?
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