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Old 15 Mar 2017, 07:59 (Ref:3718738)   #16
mayhem
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Opel Astras are eligible.

Why foster Holden for the sake of potentially four or five marques? They've had a good rub of the green over the years as it is.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 08:58 (Ref:3718748)   #17
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid


It's only a $5 grille badge away from being you-beaut all-Aussie, and such.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 09:12 (Ref:3718754)   #18
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Which manufacturers in the recent past, have walked away from, or distanced themselves from Supercars, but have a TCR car?

Audi - yes.
Alfa Romeo - yes.
Ford - yes.
Kia - yes.
Hyundai - yes.

Holden could transition via the above Astra, Nissan could do it to with whatever underpinnings they share with the Renault Megane. Pulsar?

Renault themselves have kicked the tin in recent years in the ARC, so have Honda. Heck, there's even an eligible Subaru!

Cars seem to be reasonably cheap to buy, too. I think the dearest was the Audi, built by SEAT Sport, under Ingolstadt's guidance, at around $120K Euro new.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 09:42 (Ref:3718769)   #19
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
And all the while we have three manufacturers dancing around this Gen 2 idea with zero global relevance and only one marque actually committing more than a few words on a press release every three months.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 11:17 (Ref:3718790)   #20
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Let's not mince words though, right now VW is dominating TCR (through VW and Seat), and people would inevitably whine about it.

Plus, you're going to get back to the safety and repairability questions that led to the current style of car.

Also almost all of the current engineering pool of the teams as they exist now is completely useless if they are to race TCR. So the teams would downsize to perhaps 10% of what they are now.

So not sure it is plug-in and go.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 11:41 (Ref:3718794)   #21
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not entirely true of the engineering pool. There were a significant amount of SC personnel at the 12hr this year. Engineers, data engineers, mechanics, pit crews, fabricators, etc would all still be needed.

VW, via Engstler, got quite a headstart on everyone, building and testing cars before the ruleset was even finalised (Think Triple Eight and CotF transition). I don't think there's a factory VW team anyway. Backdoor support, at the most. It's also a BOP ruleset. Lead trophy seems to be the thing they do. There's a minimum weight, but ballast can swing from -20kg to +70kgs either side.

You're right to query the repairability and safety though. However, they do have mid-mounted fuel cells much like the CotF concept. Cage design, etc is FIA-approved. I would also go as far as to suggest that the likelihood of having a car-destroying stack would be lower, due to slower speeds, and less vehicle mass.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 11:47 (Ref:3718797)   #22
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Not entirely true of the engineering pool. There were a significant amount of SC personnel at the 12hr this year. Engineers, data engineers, mechanics, pit crews, fabricators, etc would all still be needed.
These are far more akin to an Improved Production than GT3. You're right a lot of those things are necessary for GT3 but a great many of them will be redundant with TCR, because it is meant to be that there are not car constructors, which is fundamentally different to Supercars current model.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 14:43 (Ref:3718842)   #23
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I don't think there's a factory VW team anyway. Backdoor support, at the most. It's also a BOP ruleset. Lead trophy seems to be the thing they do. There's a minimum weight, but ballast can swing from -20kg to +70kgs either side.
Indeed.

There are no factory teams at all in TCR International. There's Audi Hong Kong in TCR Asia, but the rest are privateers in the TCR series. The cars are significantly slower than existing VASC cars. Would be an ideal support category. Only the VAG cars (Seat Leon, VW Golf, Audi S3) and the Honda Civic are at the ultimate pace so far. FWD only, use road-car derived suspension components. The formula needs further development before it is used for a 'headline' series IMHO. It's certainly progressing and affordable. We shall see how the STCC goes this season, the first of the established series to switch to a TCR ruleset.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 18:03 (Ref:3718876)   #24
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It does seem like if you run an international ruleset, you essentially open up to a lot more manufacturer interest or at least the ability to run under their auspices.

Run your own cowboy ruleset...in Australia...with a ravaged local manufacturing...yeah good luck with that
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 19:39 (Ref:3718884)   #25
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It does seem like if you run an international ruleset, you essentially open up to a lot more manufacturer interest or at least the ability to run under their auspices.

Run your own cowboy ruleset...in Australia...with a ravaged local manufacturing...yeah good luck with that
Supercars should look at adopting a similar series layout to Japan's SuperGT format there'd be 6-7 manufacturers who would be ready to go
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 21:33 (Ref:3718910)   #26
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These are far more akin to an Improved Production than GT3. You're right a lot of those things are necessary for GT3 but a great many of them will be redundant with TCR, because it is meant to be that there are not car constructors, which is fundamentally different to Supercars current model.
I don't think there's anything in the TCR rules from stopping teams from building their own cars according to homologation.
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Old 16 Mar 2017, 02:08 (Ref:3718936)   #27
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Looky looky, a TCR thread... go for your lives...
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Old 16 Mar 2017, 02:53 (Ref:3718941)   #28
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I don't think there's anything in the TCR rules from stopping teams from building their own cars according to homologation.
The point of TCR is to have a cost-effective, production based race series where you buy a car ready to go from the manufacturer.

It is in essence exactly at cross-purposes to Supercars as it is currently structured.
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Old 17 Mar 2017, 15:01 (Ref:3719404)   #29
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I don't think TCR is the solution to be the main class in Australia. If they really want to change to different cars and smaller engines they should copy BTCC. But if it was up to me I would change nothing.

But to give some numbers:
- SEAT built more than 200 TCR versions of the current SEAT Leon.
- Audi built 60 cars for this season. Planning to build more this season.
- TCR Germany has 41 cars on the grid this season.
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Old 17 Mar 2017, 23:43 (Ref:3719499)   #30
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But if it was up to me I would change nothing.
Problem is if nothing gets changed, where does the Gen2 formula end up?

Only two manufacturers pour money in now, only 1 has committed to building something to the new regs, and we seem to get endless stories of endless manufacturers "talking to new marques about entering" and they seem to keep coming to nothing...

Supercars arrogance, particularly when forming the CotF rules for 2013, in thinking that manufacturers will just want to come play with them and they can write whatever rules suits them (in that case V8s only) might have looked like a good idea in 2014, but in the long run has proven to be a bad move seeing the drop in manufacturer interest in the series now
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