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Old 17 Mar 2017, 23:58 (Ref:3719508)   #31
peckstar
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Problem is if nothing gets changed, where does the Gen2 formula end up?

Only two manufacturers pour money in now, only 1 has committed to building something to the new regs, and we seem to get endless stories of endless manufacturers "talking to new marques about entering" and they seem to keep coming to nothing...

Supercars arrogance, particularly when forming the CotF rules for 2013, in thinking that manufacturers will just want to come play with them and they can write whatever rules suits them (in that case V8s only) might have looked like a good idea in 2014, but in the long run has proven to be a bad move seeing the drop in manufacturer interest in the series now
TCR discusion, but somehow you just turned it into a anti supercars rant without any tcr discusion at all.
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 01:03 (Ref:3719516)   #32
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
TCR if anything in Australia could be a support category or an invitational class at the B12hr.

I have been watching them but they do not have anything like what it takes to the the main series here - they look cool but they are slow and inline fours sound like ****.
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 01:16 (Ref:3719517)   #33
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
New car sales figures for the month of January, 2017:

TCR-centric:

Small — 16,468: Mazda 3 (3473), Toyota Corolla (2943) and Hyundai i30 (2018)

Premium Small — 1362: Audi A3 (480), Mercedes-Benz A-Class (327) and BMW 1 Series (209)

Supercars-centric:

Large — 2208: Commodore (1960), Toyota Aurion (95) and Ford Falcon (73)

Premium Large — 348: Mercedes-Benz E-Class (154), BMW 5 Series (80) and Audi A6 (39)

So, do we or don't we need a premier tin-top series with market relevance?

**Worth noting that the 57% upswing of Commodore sales is largely due to their impending extinction. New Falcon sales will soon be zero, and in 12 months time, the Commdore will be too.
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 01:20 (Ref:3719518)   #34
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Does not change one thing that I said - this is a red herring.
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 01:22 (Ref:3719519)   #35
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm looking at it from a perspective of how it would invigorate a marketing budget, not so much the fanbase.
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 03:05 (Ref:3719526)   #36
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mikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
But fan base is key, is it not? I like TCR and follow it/watch it when I can. But everyone who I have shown (who like VASC) roll their eyes at the TCR cars, which I can understand. All I take from this is will people watch TCR in Aus/NZ? I really think. It unfortunately.

We must remember that fans make a series successful, not manufacturers.
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 04:48 (Ref:3719530)   #37
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
New car sales figures for the month of January, 2017:

TCR-centric:

Small 16,468: Mazda 3 (3473), Toyota Corolla (2943) and Hyundai i30 (2018)

Premium Small 1362: Audi A3 (480), Mercedes-Benz A-Class (327) and BMW 1 Series (209)

Supercars-centric:

Large 2208: Commodore (1960), Toyota Aurion (95) and Ford Falcon (73)

Premium Large 348: Mercedes-Benz E-Class (154), BMW 5 Series (80) and Audi A6 (39)

So, do we or don't we need a premier tin-top series with market relevance?

**Worth noting that the 57% upswing of Commodore sales is largely due to their impending extinction. New Falcon sales will soon be zero, and in 12 months time, the Commdore will be too.
None of the above equates to anything meaningful. It's been many, many, years since the carparks at any motor racing venue even remotely reflected the vehicles being raced.

People support a category/brand/marque/driver... whatever, but own/drive a vehicle which is the most practical for them (or that provided by their employer) !
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 05:02 (Ref:3719531)   #38
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We dropped Group A for V8s because of the relevance to the fans
We brought in Gen2 because of the relevance of the engines and body stylings to the manufacturers

So if TCR ticked all the boxes from a relevance standpoint and the manufacturers standpoint, "because they are slow" isn't really a reason not to introduce the regs. Supercars aren't the fastest cars in Australia as is, and every other regulation change in Australian touring car racing has been a move to initially slower cars.

SVG, Lowndes, Mostert & McLaughlin would all still be doing the driving, and the fans will keep coming through the gates to watch them.
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 05:42 (Ref:3719534)   #39
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Just because its popular on the road doesn't mean it will be popular on the race track.

What are the sales figures for the road version of the GT cars?

How many Mazda 3 or Corolla buyers follow or care for motorsport? Probably less than the combined sales figures of GT cars.

Dual cab 4WD utes sell in huge numbers. Will those numbers reflect in the new Superutes series? Not a chance.

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Old 18 Mar 2017, 06:27 (Ref:3719539)   #40
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Manufacturers utilise motorsport, whether the car is their best seller or not, to get people interested in the brand itself, and to get them into the dealership. Nissan have sold more GTRs here than Altimas, but they're not looking to push the Altima sales. The problem that manifests within that concept is that, the less the fanbase can relate to what's on the track, the less likely it is, that the fanbase for the sport will grow. It's much harder to build an affinity with the brand, when perhaps only 5% of the population, have seen an Altima out on the road.

Manufacturers aren't interested in the existing formula, because they won't get the value for their investment. They look at what we're doing here, and think "How come our counterparts overseas can have a factory team in their premier tin-top series, running at the pointy end of the field, for only a fraction of the price?". Furthermore, how can they leverage a bespoke chassis that has virtually zero relatable DNA to the roadcar, into sales and brand affinity?
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 06:29 (Ref:3719540)   #41
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Manufacturers aren't interested in the existing formula, because they won't get the value for their investment. They look at what we're doing here, and think "How come our counterparts overseas can have a factory team in their premier tin-top series, running at the pointy end of the field, for only a fraction of the price?". Furthermore, how can they leverage a bespoke chassis that has virtually zero relatable DNA to the roadcar, into sales and brand affinity?
Are you talking the Uzbekistan unicorn series?

What premier touring car series can be raced for a fraction of Supercar price?

Then again 9/10 is a fraction too...
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 06:39 (Ref:3719543)   #42
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Speed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Supercars should look at adopting a similar series layout to Japan's SuperGT format there'd be 6-7 manufacturers who would be ready to go
Are we talking about the same Super GTs? The ones that are so expensive that Japan - a country with an economy 5 times as big as Australia's - manages to put a grand total of 15 of them on the grid?
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 08:53 (Ref:3719558)   #43
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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We must remember that fans make a series successful, not manufacturers.
And fans will follow drivers, they are the heroes of this game.
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 15:00 (Ref:3719672)   #44
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And fans will follow drivers, they are the heroes of this game.
But will those same drivers want to stick around driving slow, poor-sounding hatchbacks over something faster and more interesting overseas?
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 15:12 (Ref:3719680)   #45
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FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!FIRE has a real shot at the podium!
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But will those same drivers want to stick around driving slow, poor-sounding hatchbacks over something faster and more interesting overseas?
If they can make a living out it yes.
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