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Old 13 Apr 2017, 21:43 (Ref:3726219)   #31
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To help you chaps out I suggest that a car is historic when it is old enough to smoke.
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 12:43 (Ref:3726338)   #32
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Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
From what I've seen and heard, in the USA a race car becomes 'historic' almost as soon as it isn't 'current'.

Ignoring jokes about new build Cobras, 'E' Types, etc., we've already seen 90s 'Supertourers' being raced competitively again, and track displays of late GT cars. This season Peter Auto has two events where GT1 cars (1994 to 2011) can be exercised. (https://peterauto.peter.fr/en/platea...id/224/nom/GT1)

Could this be a precursor to a race series for these cars, and if so, a good move? Or are they too young......
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Yes, but as mentioned in the initial post, only (AFAIK) in the USA would a 'modern' race car be welcomed in 'historic' racing. The cost of running LMP, GT and Formula stuff must be prohibitive. Even the later GpC cars seem to need an awful amount of man power to get on track, so are there enough owners or potential owners of modern stuff with deep enough pockets? And why would they want to race a car just a few years old, when they are likely wealthy enough to run the latest thing in a current series?
If that bothers you don't look at the HSR entry list for The Mitty next weekend at Road Atlanta. 3 DPs, 3 LMPCs and a few GTs in the list. Last year was more entertaining when the DPs and LMPCs raced in both HSR and IMSA in the same season, including a car that raced at Petit in Oct 15 and returned to racing in April 16 with HSR.
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 15:45 (Ref:3726390)   #33
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Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
If that bothers you don't look at the HSR entry list for The Mitty next weekend at Road Atlanta. 3 DPs, 3 LMPCs and a few GTs in the list. Last year was more entertaining when the DPs and LMPCs raced in both HSR and IMSA in the same season, including a car that raced at Petit in Oct 15 and returned to racing in April 16 with HSR.

Doesn't bother me one bit! When I was lucky to race at Sebring in 2013 we had an Audi LMP car in the same test session as my buddy's '65 Mustang I was sharing. Unfortunately the Audi collided with one of Cobra Automotive's Shelby Mustangs and the driver of the Proto took no further part in the meeting.....

Last edited by Mike Bell; 14 Apr 2017 at 17:45. Reason: Clarification
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 17:23 (Ref:3726416)   #34
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And talking of the USA, for auction the other side of the pond, we have a suitable base for an entry- http://auctionsamerica.com/events/fe...=AS17&ID=r0160

I don't think it has an engine included looking at the guide price......
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Old 14 Apr 2017, 19:16 (Ref:3726434)   #35
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And talking of the USA, for auction the other side of the pond, we have a suitable base for an entry- http://auctionsamerica.com/events/fe...=AS17&ID=r0160

I don't think it has an engine included looking at the guide price......
None of the HPDs have engines and the discount Lola. I'm thinking the livery might cause some pause at tracks.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 18:41 (Ref:3728234)   #36
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It's happening again, but almost passed me by....

The HSCC run Super Touring Car Trophy now includes a class for Pre 2006 FIA S2000 cars and invited n/a BTCC cars. There should be a couple of entries in their race at Donington HF weekend after this....

Eligible cars class structure here- https://hscc.org.uk/championships/hs...ng-car-trophy/
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 20:34 (Ref:3728249)   #37
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>>>>>And why would they want to race a car just a few years old, when they are likely wealthy enough to run the latest thing in a current series?

Because in a current series you need the right licences, seeding, and are up against cream-of-the-crop drivers. In historic it's all old boys together on lesser permits.

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Old 22 Apr 2017, 05:24 (Ref:3728295)   #38
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(And why would they want to race a car just a few years old, when they are likely wealthy enough to run the latest thing in a current series?)

Because in a current series you need the right licences, seeding, and are up against cream-of-the-crop drivers. In historic it's all old boys together on lesser permits.
Thank you Max for the (slightly belated) response!
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 11:38 (Ref:3728643)   #39
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Sorry. Been a busy couple of weeks.

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Old 2 May 2017, 15:18 (Ref:3730582)   #40
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Rudernst should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
part of the allure of historic racing was / is that the development race is much much less intense than in most modern high profile series that still get amateur participation

you can do and finance VLN, a friend of mine does it
but the cost to run competitive in something like GT3 or Ferrari Challenge and similar is eyewatering (had a friend who did that and had to throw in to towel, allthough he prepped the cars himself)
you can top this of course and try to enter the proper Le Mans 24 hour race......

when I started out in Formula Junior the idea was that You built a car, did that right and could race it for a number of years
thats no longer the case in many historic forms of racing
the development race is on, unfortunately
more in some formulas, less in others, depends a bit who is racing with how much money to throw around and how tightly this is policed

Simon hit it on the head with his remark about driver qualification
the more modern cars mentioned above can pull 3 gs or much much more
that should not surprise because even 1980ies Group C cars would pull 5 g in period if well set up
You should to go to the gym and work out to drive a Group C car like the Sauber Mercedes, Jaguar XJ14 or somesuch at competive speeds for more than 5 minutes

BTW I am convinced that the relative lack of success of the Porsche 962 in Historic Group C which is the complete opposite of what happened in period is down to the fact, that the infrastructure in amateur racing is not able to set up and dial these cars into their working window on the control tires available.

driving a 2,5 litre Lotus 18 GP car, that pulls about 1 g is babysitting in comparison, it can scare you witless, but it does not tax your personal fitness that much as it slides so much, not over the 25 minutes of a historic race
was different for Moss in Monca 1961 over 80 laps, of course
a slicks and wings F3 Ralt will demand much more fitness that a 1960ies f1 car on L section Dunlop tires
a late 1970es F2 is quicker than a early 70ies F1 car and surprisingly will demand a ligher fitness level

been there, done that, speak from experience

so the ideal historic racer for the more modern sophisticated cars would have to have :
- tons of money
- good level of personal fitness
- driving ability
- respect, time and willingness to get one with the car
that might not be present in all applicants

exactly as Simon said......

the upsurge in Historic Formula Junior prices could be partly explained that some moneyed racers realise that this is more within the the scope of their abilities

yes, I would love to see more modern cars out
why not
enjoyed the M3s at the Donington Historic Festival, for instance
I love watching Historic Group C and HFO

buuuut, lets make sure nobody gets hurt.

and of course, Louis is right, the electronics in the modern cars make it a challenge
either you rip it out and replace by something easier
or the cars that are for sale dont have to full works engine and software spec in them anyway as they were stripped out long ago.


RuE
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