GP 2012 General chat (split from volunteering thread)

[The Fat Clerk]

[QUOTE=M Greenslade;2961131]It's no coincidence that the British GP is usually a shining example of how to do it properly


What you mean like not showing the Chequred Flag to the top............ in the Porsche Super Cup race.

Only teasing, I know the story, and couldn't resist

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by M Greenslade

The signature criteria is an interesting one. Of the many locals that marshalled for yesterdays Singapore Grand Prix, I wonder how many of them would be qualified, or is it one rule for one country and one rule for another? Be interested to know.

Bladders........

ive wondered that, i gather they were the same as when abu dhabi started, a lot of aussie marshals might have trained the malaysians as (as they have soon type of motorsport following and is the closest) or indonesians themselves up or they may have just had a lot from sepang? are the marshal's who do sepang qualified,

there was one blog i was reading before i started marshalling, i dont know if its the way its worded but this may clear up just how much experience they have

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/10/0...re-grand-prix/

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Woolley

It's no coincidence that the British GP is usually a shining example of how to do it properly.

We are are lucky in having a large number of trained and experienced marshals in UK. In fact we have too many for everyone to marshal the F1 each year.

'Doing it properly' at the GP is no different to how we work the remaining weekends of the season. The GP is probably one of the only events where we have 'everyone' on post we'd like. There's no need to 'make do' with low numbers etc, so of course it should be about perfect!

In regards overseas F1 events, now that many are in places that don't have such a tradition of club racing, it's going to be harder to recruit experienced marshals.

I was able to marshal at the first Singapore GP in '08 - purely off my own back. The marshalling was organised by CAMS (like BARC did at Abu Dhabi) - and they had large numbers of people there to train/mentor/lead the locals. The local marshals came to the race with very little or no experience of motorsport or marshalling. It was interesting to see the faces on post when the F1 cars came out for the first time!

If the only race you get to marshal each year is F1, you're never going to get the trackside experience that F1 really needs or expects. However, if you have nowhere else to marshal you're stuck.

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

ive wondered that, i gather they were the same as when abu dhabi started, a lot of aussie marshals might have trained the malaysians as (as they have soon type of motorsport following and is the closest) or indonesians themselves up or they may have just had a lot from sepang? are the marshal's who do sepang qualified,

there was one blog i was reading before i started marshalling, i dont know if its the way its worded but this may clear up just how much experience they have

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/10/0...re-grand-prix/

The first Abu Dhabi GP was marshalled mainly by UK Marshals and CAMS etc had nothing to do with it.

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

We are are lucky in having a large number of trained and experienced marshals in UK. In fact we have too many for everyone to marshal the F1 each year.

'Doing it properly' at the GP is no different to how we work the remaining weekends of the season. The GP is probably one of the only events where we have 'everyone' on post we'd like. There's no need to 'make do' with low numbers etc, so of course it should be about perfect!

In regards overseas F1 events, now that many are in places that don't have such a tradition of club racing, it's going to be harder to recruit experienced marshals.

I was able to marshal at the first Singapore GP in '08 - purely off my own back. The marshalling was organised by CAMS (like BARC did at Abu Dhabi) - and they had large numbers of people there to train/mentor/lead the locals. The local marshals came to the race with very little or no experience of motorsport or marshalling. It was interesting to see the faces on post when the F1 cars came out for the first time!

If the only race you get to marshal each year is F1, you're never going to get the trackside experience that F1 really needs or expects. However, if you have nowhere else to marshal you're stuck.

fair enough but imagine in the uk you have someone who's never done an event before being able to marshal at silverstone gp, youd be a bit horrified, its not the locals fault but its a real shame the malaysians cant do their event, theyve got a helluva lot more motorsport going for them, world famous drivers and teams, few more circuits, and an established 10 year+ gp...

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

fair enough but imagine in the uk you have someone who's never done an event before being able to marshal at silverstone gp, youd be a bit horrified

Down to the FIA, I'm afraid. They think anyone can do it. We know better. This is also the explanation for FIA flags - no experience necessary.

However, this is all off topic.

[roys1]

Wooley, you say no experience needed... Where do you get that opinion... At the British GP you flag as normal... Race control may ask you upgrade or withdraw flags but that is rare... You blue flag at your discretion except for the F1 race where we on a dedicated blue flag radio give a running type of updated info to assist the blue flag marshals...

[FRENCHIE44T]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

ive wondered that, i gather they were the same as when abu dhabi started, a lot of aussie marshals might have trained the malaysians as (as they have soon type of motorsport following and is the closest) or indonesians themselves up or they may have just had a lot from sepang? are the marshal's who do sepang qualified,

there was one blog i was reading before i started marshalling, i dont know if its the way its worded but this may clear up just how much experience they have

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/10/0...re-grand-prix/

Having just read the link that you put in your post, it was interesting but I did not quite understand this bit.

When we went over to Abu Dhabi in 2009 it was the FIRST race meeting some of the UAE marshals had done.

Time was rather tight and breaks within the sessions were few and short

Not like over here is it?

When we went over to Abu Dhabi in 2009, it was the FIRST race meeting that some of the local UAE marshals had done.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by roys1

Wooley, you say no experience needed... Where do you get that opinion... At the British GP you flag as normal... Race control may ask you upgrade or withdraw flags but that is rare... You blue flag at your discretion except for the F1 race where we on a dedicated blue flag radio give a running type of updated info to assist the blue flag marshals...

No, you misunderstand. Flag signals are designed so that you can go to a new (rich) country, drag someone off the street and get them going acceptably with no previous experience.

Over here we do it properly. And if they allowed us our normal flag signals instead of their dumb ones we'd do it even better.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by roys1

Wooley, you say no experience needed... Where do you get that opinion... At the British GP you flag as normal... Race control may ask you upgrade or withdraw flags but that is rare... You blue flag at your discretion except for the F1 race where we on a dedicated blue flag radio give a running type of updated info to assist the blue flag marshals...

Just to add to that, Charlie said in the briefing that he has confidence in us, and was happy to leave us to our own devices (from which I infer that this is not always the case). As Roy says, he was on the radio keeping us updated with who was approaching who, but it was still left to our discretion as to when to show the lights/flags.

Frankly, I think this is a brilliant system. I wish we had somebody telling us this at every race that has pit stops, or is otherwise long enough that it becomes tricky to keep track. Roy might remember that I thought Schumacher had lost a lap when he turned up in the middle of a group of cars after his collision/pit stop, and had to ask if he was on the same lap. Without this information, I might just have ended up wrongly blue flagging him.

[M Greenslade]

Off topic, but what is more enjoyable, blue flagging at a clubbie at Cadwell or at F1 GP in Abu Dhabi being told what to do, I have done both and I know what gives me the greatest sense of 'why I am there'..........

Bladders.........

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by M Greenslade

Off topic, but what is more enjoyable, blue flagging at a clubbie at Cadwell or at F1 GP in Abu Dhabi being told what to do, I have done both and I know what gives me the greatest sense of 'why I am there'..........

I didn't do AD, so I'm not gonna argue with you on exactly that, but WRT the F1 GP at silverstone, it's not like that. Going by last year's experience, you're not told what to do, it's at your discretion. I wouldn't want to do it every week (mainly because of the limited timetable rather than anything else, and because I enjoy blue flagging Cadwell clubbies too), but blue flagging drivers who are paid 8 figure salaries (and other stories) can be a source of amusement too

Still, each to their own....as long as you're enjoying it, long may it continue.

[M Greenslade]

Still, each to their own....as long as you're enjoying it, long may it continue

Hear hear....

Bladders...

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by M Greenslade

Off topic, but what is more enjoyable, blue flagging at a clubbie at Cadwell or at F1 GP in Abu Dhabi being told what to do, I have done both and I know what gives me the greatest sense of 'why I am there'..........

Bladders.........

and thats why although i dont mind and am confident in bluing and have been compliment many many many a time on a well placed blue, ill avoid it like the plague if i can...

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by m1fcf

"Speed event" or "Corporate Event" - take your pick which, but no, it doesn't count

the Revival however, would count as it is a race meeting (at least I hope it does, as I have included it)

agreed. well presumably every possible event that runs under an msa permit at a circuit only would count, the easiest way to find out if the meeting has a permit for both days is to submit the prc's out, then if a "its non msa today" answer would be the reply then it wont count... track days are run under the company who hires the circuit and its all self governed, im not too clear but they have their own disclaimers, terms and conditions noone needs a race license more importantly its suprising just how much things dont need a permit, fyinterest even if goodwood hillclimb did count which it doesnt the Moving Motorshow didnt have a permit whereas the f.o.s competitive hillclimb the fri, sat, sun did...

[chezza]

Yankee...whilst the FOS runs under permit for the three days, this is a sprint and hillclimb permit rather than a race permit. Only circuit race meetings are able to be counted towards your GP total.

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by chezza

Yankee...whilst the FOS runs under permit for the three days, this is a sprint and hillclimb permit rather than a race permit. Only circuit race meetings are able to be counted towards your GP total.

agreed, it must be a real headache for some people sorting out the forms with all the confusion surrounding everything, i shouldnt have included the f.o.s, it just confuses things even more...!

[Nighthawk]

well for 7 years i includede the FOS on application Never had a rejection letter...just took the last 2 years out....

[Nighthawk]

so i wonder the lawnmower race is a MSA event and permit run so would that count..

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

well for 7 years i includede the FOS on application Never had a rejection letter...just took the last 2 years out....

I would suspect then that you had enough days to qualify whether FOS was counted or not. I believe it is the number of days they are looking for, rather than an inability to fill the form out correctly??

[pauln]

Originally Posted by m1fcf

I believe it is the number of days they are looking for, rather than an inability to fill the form out correctly??

Though that might count against people applying for Post Chief...

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by m1fcf

I would suspect then that you had enough days to qualify whether FOS was counted or not. I believe it is the number of days they are looking for, rather than an inability to fill the form out correctly??

not only that but FOS could easily be lost in with the other events if you have a big long list
lawnmower racing will most likely have an msa permit whether for all days i wouldnt know but ifs its classed as a circuit event, even if its on a "circuit", it may even be classed as a single venue rally event...
check with someone more in the know like a marshals secretary...

[Bodysnatcher]

If you need to count the days done at the lawnmower "race" to get above or to the limit that permits you to marshal at the UK's F1 event then in my book you really have not done enough of the right stuff in the previous year.

but then I'd give more weight to the MSA sprint/hillclimb championships.

Perhaps aught to make one other international / FIA event a prerequisite, I was a little concerned this year by some of my team that lacked any experience of a level of racing above BTCC.

flame away..

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

If you need to count the days done at the lawnmower "race" to get above or to the limit that permits you to marshal at the UK's F1 event then in my book you really have not done enough of the right stuff in the previous year.

but then I'd give more weight to the MSA sprint/hillclimb championships.

Perhaps aught to make one other international / FIA event a prerequisite, I was a little concerned this year by some of my team that lacked any experience of a level of racing above BTCC.

flame away..

yeah i was kind of thinking that but you cant blame a guy for wanting to apply for f1 with lawnmower racing!

doing an international event for f1 is an must for me, ive never applied before but its common sense, if i wanted to suceed with a place i wouldnt be comfortable with just btcc, yes fia events in some people's books arent good to marshal, i love the big fia events (for now), i dare say attending an fia circuit event should be in the stipulations, its not likes there's a shortage in this country we're really lucky, there's at least 6 i could mention on the spot, if not more

it throws people when theyre not used to no stationary and waved flags, incident or flags, a weekend doesnt get people used to the way fia events run but gives them a feel the way it will be to marshal f1 (minus the style of cars obviously! and the politics i can imagine!)

[chezza]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

If you need to count the days done at the lawnmower "race" to get above or to the limit that permits you to marshal at the UK's F1 event then in my book you really have not done enough of the right stuff in the previous year.

but then I'd give more weight to the MSA sprint/hillclimb championships.

Perhaps aught to make one other international / FIA event a prerequisite, I was a little concerned this year by some of my team that lacked any experience of a level of racing above BTCC.

flame away..

I have no interest in BTCC, F3, FIA GT's or any of the other international stuff that may be about, the weekends just don't interest me (I have done events like this in the past but now prefer clubbie events). Does the fact that I only do club meetings make me any less qualified to marshal at the GP?? I don't think that it does.