[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[J Jay]

McNish was otherwise considered good enough, whatever that means to Audi - not just pace but also his ability to get through traffic quickly, even though there was a not-insignificant chance of crashing as you've pointed out.

I'm not saying it was necessarily right to keep McNish or to sack Lapierre but both cases can be argued either way.

[Deleted]

I sort meant that the Lapierre incidents were more like fly footsteps on top of cake that had been sitting on back seat of van for two summer months The (relative lack of) pace was the actual issue, on track incidents including embarrassing mistakes in crucial moments can happen to drivers with good reputation too.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

IMHO, this is a no-brainer; call Lapierre back to replace Kazuki in the #1 car.

Just correcting a typo and ... continuing beating that drum...

[kurski]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Just correcting a typo and ... continuing beating that drum...

I believe that Kamui Kobayashi will replace Nakajima

[MyNameIsNigel]

Vasselon: “This Kind of Accident Shouldn’t Have Happened”

Nakajima ran into the rear of Oliver Jarvis’ No. 8 Audi R18 e-tron quattro in Thursday’s rain-soaked FP1 at Spa-Francorchamps, with Jarvis reported to have been on his out lap and at reduced speed, according to Toyota Gazoo Racing technical director Pascal Vasselon.

“This is a question mark,” Vasselon said. “How can a professional driver be at 160 km/h (100 mph), on the racing line, where others are coming at 285 km/h (177 mph)? The impact was with more of a 100 km/h difference.”

“We saw the on-board video of Kazuki. You don’t see anything until the end. He was catching and passing the No. 7 Audi, which you clearly see.

“In front, you see a sort of grey [mist]. Suddenly, within one-tenth [of a second], you see two red glows. Then the car is then in the windscreen.”

I haven't seen any footage of the accident, but is the damage on both cars really consistent with Vasselon's statement ?

Is it furthermore correct to suggest putting the blame onto Jarvis for what happened ?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by kurski

I believe that Kamui Kobayashi will replace Nakajima

Seems increasingly likely indeed in view of Vasselon's statements.

[Bandicoot17]

Well it damaged the tub and hurt kazuki so I'd guess there's some truth in the statement regarding the speeds.

[kaivo]

no crash video ?

[TzeiTzei]

Tbh I find it a bit strange that the driver gets so seriously injured from that kind of crash. I don't remember ever hearing a driver hurting his back in a front impact crash.

[Chuliandred]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Vasselon: “This Kind of Accident Shouldn’t Have Happened”

I haven't seen any footage of the accident, but is the damage on both cars really consistent with Vasselon's statement ?

Is it furthermore correct to suggest putting the blame onto Jarvis for what happened ?

In my opinion such things happen. But they shouldn't... I don't know how good they are in the WEC but don't the teams have a map with all the GPS positions of the cars on it? Can't they warn the drivers? And that stands for both Toyota and Audi. One which see that a slower car on an outlap in the rain is in front and the other which should recognize the flying Toyota closing in... For what is all the nice technological advancement good if they don't utilize it?

Originally Posted by Chiana

Pace is one thing, but the accidents? McNish also binned it twice on successive seasons (2011-2012) and both to his own fault. At least Lapierre can make excuses with the weather

The difference is that Audi still won the race. So they did not only displayed the speed and reliability of the car but also how safe they are when drivers can jump out of the cars after such crashes completely undamaged (goes for Rocky as well) . Furthermore, the times have changed dramatically. The competition is much stronger and the cars are closer together and most likely reliable enough so that one or more cars of each manufacturer drives untroubled to the end. There is no more margin to allow slower drivers in these cars and still hope for a win.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Chuliandred

The difference is that Audi still won the race. So they did not only displayed the speed and reliability of the car but also how safe they are when drivers can jump out of the cars after such crashes completely undamaged (goes for Rocky as well) . Furthermore, the times have changed dramatically. The competition is much stronger and the cars are closer together and most likely reliable enough so that one or more cars of each manufacturer drives untroubled to the end. There is no more margin to allow slower drivers in these cars and still hope for a win.

In 2011 the incident retired the car completely and there was no assurance that Audi was going to win it at that point (or any other except like the final minutes). In 2012 yeah there were only Audis left running, but binning the cars while racing against no-one but your own is not good PR.

Times have changed. From couple of decades past yes, but not from the beginning of this decade (except maybe this year). Or are you somehow implying that the 2013/2014 cars are more reliable and closer together than they were in 2011?

[Chuliandred]

Originally Posted by Chiana

In 2011 the incident retired the car completely and there was no assurance that Audi was going to win it at that point (or any other except like the final minutes). In 2012 yeah there were only Audis left running, but binning the cars while racing against no-one but your own is not good PR.

Times have changed. From couple of decades past yes, but not from the beginning of this decade (except maybe this year). Or are you somehow implying that the 2013/2014 cars are more reliable and closer together than they were in 2011?

2011 Audi knew that they would need to take all risks to win. The Pugs were faster but we all know the magic Audi is able to pull off at LeMans ^^
For sure in the particular moment in was stupid to make that move. But in the end they still won and that's all that counts. I think they would have made other decisions about their next year drivers if they wouldn't have won.

[kaivo]

Oh toyota is so slow . Sad,sad

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by kaivo

Oh toyota is so slow . Sad,sad

Definitely not where they would like to be.

[J Jay]

They're quite quick actually, they broke the qualifying record as well. It's just that the VAG bros are quite a bit quicker still, and we've seen that either most or all of that pace can be carried over a race distance.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Tbh I find it a bit strange that the driver gets so seriously injured from that kind of crash. I don't remember ever hearing a driver hurting his back in a front impact crash.

This article talks to it a bit...

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/v...have-happened/

A quick quote...

“The problem is that when you have an impact from the front, they cannot move,” Vasselon explained. “All of the impact is taken by the [spine].

Not the best quote, but I think it might be a language issue. Anyhow my perspective is that they cars have a very F1 style driver position with the feet and legs up high, hips down low and the spine relatively parallel to the ground. Just follow the forces from a frontal impact. Your bodies own mass is going to compress the spine against the relatively stiff seat bottom. This likely creates a very sharp and short impulse on impact. If you had a more classic upright seating position, your body would push more against the harness which might have more give plus maybe a larger surface area to distribute that force. The result is a deceleration impulse that might be smoothed out a bit more and less peaky. I think this is also potentially similar to the back injury that F1 driver Valtteri Bottas had recently.

If they were to try to attack this problem, I suspect a crushable structure under the seat might work. But then you don't want the harness to go loose as the seat crushes under you.

Richard

[bentley speed 8]

Looks like TMG's low budget is hurting them once again. Even though they were able to improve on last year's car, they got pretty much caught off guard by the gains made by both Porsche and Audi. And the fact that they could not bring their LM kit hurts them even more.
I thought they would be much closer at Spa, but it looks like they are even further off than at Silverstone.

[Bandicoot17]

Although a new car, the 40 is often mentioned to be an evolution of the 30 if I'm not mistaken??

Perhaps it's reached it's peak so to speak, and Toyota need a revolution?

[YorkshireLad]

I spoke to some Toyota chap in the pits today, he said that Naks is out for LM. He also said they are making their mind up on the third driver, as I mentioned it must be your reserve driver. He said no not at all we maybe get someone else.

[supermario21]

Originally Posted by YorkshireLad

I spoke to some Toyota chap in the pits today, he said that Naks is out for LM. He also said they are making their mind up on the third driver, as I mentioned it must be your reserve driver. He said no not at all we maybe get someone else.

What is Nic Minassian up to these days?

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

Although a new car, the 40 is often mentioned to be an evolution of the 30 if I'm not mistaken??

Perhaps it's reached it's peak so to speak, and Toyota need a revolution?

Disagree, TS030 and TS040 don't share a lot. To me the problem is: the 2015 TS040 is no more than an evolution of the 2014 TS040; same monocoque and update parts. Improved but not enough.
Audi and Porsche improved much more their cars in each single aspect and now we see results: 919 ran in 1.54-1.55; R18 in 1.55; TS040 1.57 (barely).
Of course, need to say that both TS040 weren't in LM bodywork but...

[Skemer]

Getting sick and tired of this German conglomerate conspiracy trying to rule Le Mans til the end of days.No being silly here .
But nonetheless at the least remarkable the gains Porsche and Audi have been able to make in comparison with Toyota.Rather have all cars a bit closer for Le Mans.Makes for better racing yall

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

Disagree, TS030 and TS040 don't share a lot.

Oh yeah in terms of parts they probably share very very little. I'm more talking about the overall concept the car is based around. Racecar engineering states that the aero is a 'deep evolution' of that which was on the 30. They're going to be using batteries next season (not sure how much that will influence the design.) so perhaps we will be getting a 050??

Toyota are 10mph down on the Audi's, but slower through the twistys. Going to be a long race for them tomorrow.

[TF110]

Toyota could be running a harder tire compound. Last season they did that as it fit better with the demands on race day. China is a good example. Plus they are running the high downforce car, look at Audi's high downforce car's pace. Another thought was their setup. Are they running a setup expecting mixed conditions? There are a few things that could explain why theyre off pace if its not just down to the cars speed, which is the most logical conclusion.

Audi still uses last year's chassis, not just Toyota. And 1:57.3/1:57.5 is not 'barely' in the 57's from the #1.

[FxL]

Originally Posted by TF110

Plus they are running the high downforce car, look at Audi's high downforce car's pace.

I was thinking the same thing. Running the high downforce car and being off the pace is one thing, but still being faster than the high downforce Audi is the other. I have a feeling that they will be on par in June.