Mixed Engines for 2017 ??? (Merged x2)

[Bell_End]

Originally Posted by RED55

Personally I Think V8 Supercars has the best series in the world, Enduros, sprints , Bathurst, Gold Coast , a full racing weekend with races on both sat and sunday.

and a main reason is because it doesnt use Turbos !

ssssshhh what would you know...

[Matt]

Originally Posted by RED55

Personally I Think V8 Supercars has the best series in the world, Enduros, sprints , Bathurst, Gold Coast , a full racing weekend with races on both sat and sunday.

and a main reason is because it doesnt use Turbos !

exactly this

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by RED55

Personally I Think V8 Supercars has the best series in the world, Enduros, sprints , Bathurst, Gold Coast , a full racing weekend with races on both sat and sunday.

Don't get me wrong, as a total V8SC is by far the best touring car series but purely judging the racing in my opinion BTCC is better.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Don't get me wrong, as a total V8SC is by far the best touring car series but purely judging the racing in my opinion BTCC is better.

Doesn't BTCC have performance parity?.........that could be why.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Doesn't BTCC have performance parity?.........that could be why.

Engines sort of but I don't see any difference with V8SC.

[Razor]

What about this: Keep the V8's, lower the displacement (by about 1-2L's) but whack superchargers on them? I would love to hear the whine of the belts going down Conrod.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Doesn't BTCC have performance parity?.........that could be why.

There is success ballast after each race for the top 5, but nothing beyond that (other than tinkering with turbo boost to keep the engines even as FIRE said)

Originally Posted by Razor

What about this: Keep the V8's, lower the displacement (by about 1-2L's) but whack superchargers on them?

Would the manufacturers want to run engines like this?

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Don't get me wrong, as a total V8SC is by far the best touring car series but purely judging the racing in my opinion BTCC is better.

Driving standards are rubbish, a lot worse than V8SC.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by one five five

There is success ballast after each race for the top 5, but nothing beyond that (other than tinkering with turbo boost to keep the engines even as FIRE said)



Would the manufacturers want to run engines like this?

if the manufactures really want to race they'll run whatever the regulations stipulate.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Driving standards are rubbish, a lot worse than V8SC.

Since 2 or 3 years there's nothing wrong with driving standards. Of course there are exceptions but you have that in every series, even in V8SC.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Don't get me wrong, as a total V8SC is by far the best touring car series but purely judging the racing in my opinion BTCC is better.

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Driving standards are rubbish, a lot worse than V8SC.

Yep, won't even marshal for them. Disgraceful. V8s are sometimes a little over-policed but that's massively better than the carnage which is the normal BTCC. I wouldn't care, but the drivers spend the whole time whinging that someone did to them what they did to someone else the previous race.

[scuderus]

I reckon add a inlet restrictor to the v8's from either next year or 2016 onwards that brings power down to around 600hp.

Then from 2017 onwards allow any engine configuration (including turbos) as long as its based on a production motor from the same manufacture and uses the same inlet restrictor.

May need to also have a base line power / torque curve that all engines would need to be close to.

[JacobP]

Personally, I would like to see V8 Supercars to continue being bigass and loud cars. I don't want to see V8SC racing to be reduced to something like A-Class or B-Class little cars with tiny 2 liter engines racing each other like in BTCC or WTC. I want the Australian touring cars to be as big and loud and powerful as they are right now. If Australians don't retain this aspect of racing, then what will be the point on watching Aussie touring cars, at least from abroad?

So no matter what rules are adopted for engine size for 2017+. I'd love to see the rules state that the cars have to be the size of a midsize sedan and the engine must produce +500hp of power, and be loud as hell ;p

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by JacobP

So no matter what rules are adopted for engine size for 2017+. I'd love to see the rules state that the cars have to be the size of a midsize sedan and the engine must produce +500hp of power, and be loud as hell ;p

Problem is, turbos of any configuration are going to lose a fair bit of noise, and any 4-cylinder turbo isn't exactly inspiring to listen to, that said I actually really like the subtlety and mechanical noises and the torque delivery of the new F1 engines...

[DAVID PATERSON]

I don't mind the sound of a turbo, but I love the sound of a V8. However, the scream of a little twin cam four banger revving to 9 or 10 gets me excited too.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

I don't mind the sound of a turbo, but I love the sound of a V8. However, the scream of a little twin cam four banger revving to 9 or 10 gets me excited too.

Inline engines always sound a bit like trucks. I dare say though we will never get a high revving four-banger, if the manufacturers want road-relevant any smaller capacity engines will be turbo and driven off the torque.

[JacobP]

I am curious. Are there examples in the motorsports, where small four cylinder turbo engines are successfully competing against large V8 naturally aspirated engines?

If the current 5L V8 engines can comfortably produce 600HP, how can a production-based 2.0L 4-cylinder engine keep up with that? 2 liter turbo is what BTCC cars compete with, and they have what, about 300HP of power?

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Inline engines always sound a bit like trucks. I dare say though we will never get a high revving four-banger, if the manufacturers want road-relevant any smaller capacity engines will be turbo and driven off the torque.

I am not sure where you get this idea. Once they rev up, they sound pretty good. Go find a few videos on youtube with the sound of Honda S2000, Ford Focus ST, or say the current BTCC cars. Some four cylinder cars, specially with direct injection, do idle kind of roughly, but that feeling goes away once they get moving.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by JacobP

I am curious. Are there examples in the motorsports, where small four cylinder turbo engines are successfully competing against large V8 naturally aspirated engines?

There haven't been a lot of series that allowed turbos and N/As in the same class for a bit, but back in the 80s the small turbos did quite a good job in cars like the Grp. A Sierras or the Porsche 962s or the Toyota Eagle MkIII in Gr.C/GTP.

[Samwhk]

[QUOTE
If the current 5L V8 engines can comfortably produce 600HP, how can a production-based 2.0L 4-cylinder engine keep up with that? 2 liter turbo is what BTCC cars compete with, and they have what, about 300HP of power?[/QUOTE]

Easy, people have been getting more power than that out of 2 litre (and smaller) 4 cylinder engines for decades now. The BTCC (and WRC) engines are heavily restricted, they could easily produce a lot more. The trick will be making sure they don't out perform the current V8s.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Samwhk

[QUOTE
If the current 5L V8 engines can comfortably produce 600HP, how can a production-based 2.0L 4-cylinder engine keep up with that? 2 liter turbo is what BTCC cars compete with, and they have what, about 300HP of power?

Easy, people have been getting more power than that out of 2 litre (and smaller) 4 cylinder engines for decades now. The BTCC (and WRC) engines are heavily restricted, they could easily produce a lot more. The trick will be making sure they don't out perform the current V8s.

But what is the cost (dont mean financial) of getting those 2 litres to produce 600HP.

The v8s are heavily restricted also and generally bulletproof as a result.

however im doubtful we will see small motors, why have a highly strung 2l motor when a 6cy turbo or v8 will do the job with less stress

[rik]

Originally Posted by JacobP

I am curious. Are there examples in the motorsports, where small four cylinder turbo engines are successfully competing against large V8 naturally aspirated engines?

Yes, in the early 90s, Ford Sierras were winning races in the ATCC against 5L v8s and 2.6L TT Nissans. DJR cars were producing 600+bhp.

If the current 5L V8 engines can comfortably produce 600HP, how can a production-based 2.0L 4-cylinder engine keep up with that? 2 liter turbo is what BTCC cars compete with, and they have what, about 300HP of power?

Drivability/tyre wear would be more of a problem than lack of horse power!

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by peckstar

however im doubtful we will see small motors, why have a highly strung 2l motor when a 6cy turbo or v8 will do the job with less stress

Ideally, the new rules should be written to encourage the manufacturers to race with the V8 engines, while at the same time leaving the door open for manufacturers like Mazda or Volvo who don't manufacture V8 engines (or even 6-cylinder engines in case of Mazda). Personally, I'd probably like to see a rule that says if any of your divisions is producing a V8 engine, then you must race with that, otherwise use 6 or 4-cylinder. If the rules are not written this way, then I suspect the entire grid will go with 4-cylinder turbo engines eventually. The manufacturers will claim that this is the most road-relevant engine for them, and this will be the end of the glorious V8.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by JacobP

If the rules are not written this way, then I suspect the entire grid will go with 4-cylinder turbo engines eventually.

In the latest Auto Action it is stated that the whole reason behind "Gen2" was the fact that manufacturers were turned off the series by the V8 engine.

I find it unlikely any new manufacturers will join in using a V8.

Originally Posted by JacobP

The manufacturers will claim that this is the most road-relevant engine for them,

Is that relevancy not at the heart of touring car racing? Otherwise what is different from competing in the Sports Sedan Championship?

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by one five five

In the latest Auto Action it is stated that the whole reason behind "Gen2" was the fact that manufacturers were turned off the series by the V8 engine.

Probably all want turbos and direct injection