Do you agree with NASCAR's decision to red flag the race?

[Joe Fan]

Just curious.

[rustyfan]

A race ending under caution is always a bad thing, so from that point of view, I agree with the call.

However, the flipside of the red flag is that it allows for strange stuff to happen, like more wrecks (1997 Pepsi 400 @ Daytona anyone?) or other noteworthy developments (what was Marlin thinking anyway??).

My preferred choice: NASCAR should start using the rule currently used in the Craftsman Truck Series, that forbids a race to end under yellow, even if it means adding a few extra green-flag racing laps to the total race distance.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by rustyfan
However, the flipside of the red flag is that it allows for strange stuff to happen, like more wrecks (1997 Pepsi 400 @ Daytona anyone?)

Hey, I was at that one. On the last lap, a big melee resulted going into turn three. Ward Burton got put into the wall almost exactly the same way Dale Earnhardt did in his fatal crash but Ward had to have hit at a higher speed. This is one of the reasons why I have never believed that Dale's fatal basil skull fractice was from simple head whip alone. This along with the evidence that he hit the steering wheel a ton (enough to bend the steering column) is what led me to believe that this was caused by blunt force trauma like most BSFs are.

[rustyfan]

The '97 Pepsi 400 is one of my favorite races - I have probably seen it 10 times or so. It has it all; good racing, a first time winner (I'm a sucker for those heh), an exciting climax and Jeff Gordon doing one of the most impressive spins I have ever seen - how he managed to get missed by everyone (granted, Terry Labonte was probably just *inches* away from nailing him) I will never know

As for Earnhardt's crash, I think it's better to just leave it alone since we will never find out what really happened. I prefer to look at it from the bright side - Dale's death triggered a much-needed safety debate, and also led to mandated head-restraints.

I just wish it didn't have to take a Legend getting killed to start that debate - it should have gotten underway the second Adam Petty died at New Hampshire (or, preferrably, even earlier than that)

[marcus]

I thought it was a good idea to red flag the race.
it really did make for an exciting finish didnt it ?

I hate yellow flag finishes ...they really take the climax out of the whole event ..but stopping the race and then having a dash to the line is excellent..Ok so your gonna get a few shunts but they are drivers after all and things will go wrong when everyone wants the same piece of road ...but wow what a great race.

[rustyfan]

Yeah, and to think that I feared we were in for another Snooze'tona 500 a la 2000 (given the very similar rules). Boy was I wrong

[Joe Fan]

On the open wheel forums that I participate in, some fans didn't agree with the red flag situation as they think NASCAR was attempting to manipulate the outcome of the race to produce a more desirable winner. NASCAR usually does red flag races in this situation if they can get in three good race laps.

[rustyfan]

Yup, it's more or less common practice these days, even though it's not an official agenda, according to NASCAR's Jim Hunter who put it that way in an interview after the race.

I'd still rather see them adopt the rule used in the truck-series tho'..

[The Beer Baron]

NASCAR, doesn't like to deprive the fans who pay huge amounts of money to get in, and the rest of us who give up 4 hours on a sunday to watch the races, of the precious laps of racing.

NASCAR doesn't want to waste those laps under yellow, I've seen many great OW races spolied with a late yellow

[Speedworx]

I never like races ending under yellow, so I agree with the decision.

[dei3fan]

I too do not like to see any race end under caution.I want to see them race to the line on the last lap and fight it out for the win.Doesn't matter to me if they use the red flag or add a lap as long at they have to race for it.

It seems no matter what happens ,some folks have a Nascar conspiracy theory or at least an anti-Nascar angle to it.I don't pay much attention to such as for the most part they aren't fans to begin with.

[Ax Slinger]

Races should always end racing under a green flag. Nobody likes to see race cars crossing the finish line at 50 or 60 miles an hour. It's just weak. Not to mention, in the Daytona 500, the red flag with 6 laps to go was mandatory because of the mess on the track. What else could they do?

But in general, I guess it would also depends on why a race is red flagged too. This business of red flags because of rain is just stupid. Loads of other types of races run in the rain, NASCAR should too. Of NASCAR's three main series, WC, BUSCH, and CTS, we've had three main events so far this year, and rain delays have already happened, and the season has barely even started. Good Year makes good rain tires. NASCAR as a general rule, won't use them. Why?

[rustyfan]

You have to remember that running on an oval (especially in a stock-car - remember the exhibition race in Japan that they ran in the wet?) in the rain just isn't safe - they would begin spinning even if they had the most advanced and superb rain tires ever developed.

[Roselady3]

I agree that races should end under green.

Yesterday- they needed the red flag just to sort out the situation & make decisions.

[Ax Slinger]

Originally posted by rustyfan
You have to remember that running on an oval (especially in a stock-car - remember the exhibition race in Japan that they ran in the wet?) in the rain just isn't safe - they would begin spinning even if they had the most advanced and superb rain tires ever developed.

Did you ever get a ticket for driving too fast for conditions? I like fast races too, but a slightly slower race would be preferable to a delayed race, specially for somebody who saves all year to go to a race, that gets delayed to a day when they can't be there.

I have watched countless races in many different series that were run in the rain. Yes, sometimes they wreck, but not necessarily anymore than other times.

[rustyfan]

I've seen a lot of wet races as well, but I have never, ever seen a wet oval race, regardless of series. Also, going slow is one thing, but I think the basic design of the stock-car itself speaks against it being raced in the wet. Again, just look back at the exhibition race at Suzuka in Japan that were run in the wet - they were sliding all over the place, more often going off the track than staying on it.

[Stephen Green]

Before I say any more I have to point out that I didn't see the Daytona race.

As a marshal I do have a few points to raise for your consideration. Ending a race with a red flag gives the same race result and ending under a yellow or caution flag. That's because the yellow/caution flag does not permit any overtaking for safety reasons.

Normally, in any race, if the red flag is used it is because it is UNSAFE to continue the race. That could mean the track is blocked with crashes cars, or huge amounts of debris or God forbid, a driver being injured.

In extreme cases like huge amounts of debris you could argue that to send the tyrack marshals out to clear it would be the best move?

Well, let me fill you in on a few details regarding that. Many drivers do NOT slow down under yellow or caution flag periods, that goes for every country and every series. Under those circumstances it becomes extremely dangerous to send track marshals onto the race track to clear the mess.

You have to remember that the race organisers or clerks of the course take the overal safety issue into their consideration when deciding to red flag any race, and I assure you at International levels such as Cart, Nascar, Formula 1 etc etc those decisions are not made lightly!

Take care everyone,

Stephen.

[Ax Slinger]

Originally posted by rustyfan
I've seen a lot of wet races as well, but I have never, ever seen a wet oval race, regardless of series. Also, going slow is one thing, but I think the basic design of the stock-car itself speaks against it being raced in the wet. Again, just look back at the exhibition race at Suzuka in Japan that were run in the wet - they were sliding all over the place, more often going off the track than staying on it.

Well, everyone has an opinion about everything, and we both have stated ours on this topic. You don't think they should run in the rain, I think they should. Who's right? Who knows? I'm just tired of rain delays, and think NASCAR should do something to resolve this issue.

[Lars]

After reading what Stephen said, sounds to me that NASCAR mis-uses the red flag. The last 6 laps could have easily be run under the caution flag. There was a lot of debris on the track, but traffic could have weaved around it or been sent through pit road...they have run caution laps with a lot more carnage on the track during this and any race.

I'm glad they stop the race to finish it under green, but maybe change the rules...they like to do that anyways. The CTS races always end with a green, white, checkers in order to prevent them finishing under a caution...if the race goes 5 laps over and you run out of gas...tough beans. I can see all the drivers whining now if WC does this.

[Roselady3]

Yeah - they could have finished under yellow. I think they needed to throw the Red just to decide WHAT they were going to do about Gordon using pit road when it was closed & Sterlings move. (as well as clean up the huge mess) Sterling getting out & playing with his cars fender kinda helped them out with THAT decision. Wonder what would have happened if Sterling DIDN'T get out of his car? Would they have punished him for trying to pass the poster childs car & being blocked?

[rustyfan]

NASCAR has stated that Marlin wasn't going to be penalized for putting two wheels on the wrong side of the yellow line, since he didn't gain on the move (although he did, but because Gordon put a block on and spun himself out when they made contact). And if you look at the video you can see that Marlin wasn't below the yellow line when he begun his move - he only went there when Gordon begun squeezing him.

Not a lot seems to know about this, but for this years race, going beneath the yellow line wasn't automatically a penalty - only if you did it and gained on doing it.

[Roselady3]

I became a big deal at Daytona after DE went below the yellow before he turned right & went up the banking into the wall. The Pepsie 400 (July Race) They started to make a big deal about it. Tony went low to avoid an accident, they punished him big time.

[rustyfan]

They punished Stewart big-time at that that race, yes, but as said, the change of reasoning was made before this years Daytona 500 - not at any time during 2001.

[Roselady3]

You are right. Too bad they didn't inform the announcers of their new rulings---because they were certainly having a good time with it! LOL

[rustyfan]

Not to mention the reaction to Sterlin Marlin getting out of his car