US Grand Prix- Austin (USA)

[BobHWS]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

No it is not, and yes we will...

This is the USA, not Greece or Turkey...

Despite the growing opposition to the public subsidy of the race, I think the track will get built and the race will be held. But I am still skeptical that Austin, Texas is the right location for the US GP. I have nothing against Austin as a city--it's a great town and would be a great place to live. I just don't think it's a good long-term location for the race. I'm also skeptical about the grandiose claims made about the supposed economic benefits of the track.

[Spritle]

Grandiose claims of economic benefits last as long as the hype and crowds, then it dies and becomes a drain on the economy, just ask Turkey & Australia and...

Austinites will eventually realize they were bamboozled by one of the greatest charlatans in history, a man that makes P.T. Barnum look like a piker; Bernard "Gimme the Cash" Ecclestone.

As P.T and Bernard say, "there's a sucker born every minute".

[bjohnsonsmith]

I personally hope it doesn't get built and that the $250m that woulkd have gone into Ecclestone's pocket goes to saving those teacher's jobs.

[Spritle]

I'm sure Tavo & Bernie have already told the teachers union that WHEN their members lose their jobs due to the economic crisis and the cash drain from the building of the venue; they can sign on for one of the 250,000,000,000,000,000 gazillion jobs the Circuit of the Americas will create.

They can put their education and experience to work on a career that is rewarding, worthwhile and stimulating, you know...

...like selling programs, air horns, beer or those giant BB-Q turkey legs.

[Purist]

Construction is already underway, and Texas could use a serious, permanent road course (something more than just a testing or club venue).

As long as it gets built, regardless of how F1 turns out, it would still be a decent venue for IndyCar, ALMS, Grand-Am, AMA, etc to use (and at a fraction of the cost of an F1 sanction fee).

[chillibowl]

does anyone know much about the state of Texas? it has an economy as large if not larger than Canada, a country whose government has spent considerably more on F1 than the 250mill being referred to here with no complaints from race fans. why is this different (other than no one ever loses their government jobs in Canada)

to say the very least, the building of this track has absolutely no bearing on these teachers losing their jobs.

i certainly can understand the point that sports events should be privately funded but lets maintain some perspective.

for example, the ExxonMobil corporate headquarters are just a couple of hours away from this track. one of the largest companies in the world and major long time partner to Mclaren. will this be treated as a home event for them? should there be more money to come from them to have a home race? are there other business deals to be made here that will alleviate some of their government's contribution to build the track?

i dont know about you guys but this is exactly the type of place F1 should be going. i hope it works out.

[vin13]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

does anyone know much about the state of Texas? it has an economy as large if not larger than Canada, a country whose government has spent considerably more on F1 than the 250mill being referred to here with no complaints from race fans. why is this different (other than no one ever loses their government jobs in Canada)

to say the very least, the building of this track has absolutely no bearing on these teachers losing their jobs.

i certainly can understand the point that sports events should be privately funded but lets maintain some perspective.

for example, the ExxonMobil corporate headquarters are just a couple of hours away from this track. one of the largest companies in the world and major long time partner to Mclaren. will this be treated as a home event for them? should there be more money to come from them to have a home race? are there other business deals to be made here that will alleviate some of their government's contribution to build the track?

i dont know about you guys but this is exactly the type of place F1 should be going. i hope it works out.

Good post. Its important for everyone reading into the "teachers losing jobs" bit to realize that the money in the Special Events Fund would not magically be appropriated to hire on teachers or save kittens if it isn't used to fund F1 in Austin. My mother was a public school teacher in Austin for over 30 years and I promise you they were undervalued and neglected long before we started building a circuit.

[JeremySmith]

Welcome to the forum Vin 13...I know you will enjoy posting here as they are a good lot..

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I personally hope it doesn't get built and that the $250m that woulkd have gone into Ecclestone's pocket goes to saving those teacher's jobs.

F1 or any other type of motor sport has nothing to do with teachers or budgets for education...

It is being built by the way...

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Spritle

Grandiose claims of economic benefits last as long as the hype and crowds, then it dies and becomes a drain on the economy, just ask Turkey & Australia and...

Austinites will eventually realize they were bamboozled by one of the greatest charlatans in history, a man that makes P.T. Barnum look like a piker; Bernard "Gimme the Cash" Ecclestone.

As P.T and Bernard say, "there's a sucker born every minute".

Turkey was a complete no go from the beginning, a complete waste of time, if you don't believe me ask Joe Saward for his opinion on the subject..

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by BobHWS

Despite the growing opposition to the public subsidy of the race, I think the track will get built and the race will be held. But I am still skeptical that Austin, Texas is the right location for the US GP. I have nothing against Austin as a city--it's a great town and would be a great place to live. I just don't think it's a good long-term location for the race. I'm also skeptical about the grandiose claims made about the supposed economic benefits of the track.

So where would you suggest we build a racing venue? Austin is located slap bang in the middle of the USA..

But I am open to ideas..

[BobHWS]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

So where would you suggest we build a racing venue? Austin is located slap bang in the middle of the USA..

But I am open to ideas..

Fair question, but now that construction is underway, it's probably a moot point.

In any case, my answer would be, ideally, one of these possibilities:

1. One of the USA's top road racing courses. Unfortunately though, none of these tracks have the infrastructure (accessibility, paddock, pits, hotels, etc.) to support F1.

2. Indianapolis: not the perfect location because it's an oval adapted to a road course. But it's a good location (more central than Austin) and it has all the infrastructure. Despite the year of the tire debacle, the race worked quite well here, probably better than any other previous USA venue. As usual, though, Bernie got greedy and asked for more money and Indy refused to pay.

3. Some new purpose-built F1 track built near a place that has more of a natural fan base for F1 and near a city that has more sex appeal than Austin. I would suggest southern or northern California, Miami or possibly New York. But I don't think any of those are realistic possibilities.

So we're stuck with Austin. I give credit to Tavo for making this happen and I accept that it will happen. But I don't have to like it. I might even like to attend a race there someday. Though as long as there is an F1 race in Montreal and I can afford to attend just one race a year, I will always choose Montreal over Austin. Anyone who is familiar with both cities should understand why, but as the saying goes, chacun Ã* son goût.

[Marbot]

As we have seen before. Just because someone builds a state-of-the-art race track, doesn't mean to say that F1 is going to continue to race there!

It's already flopped several times in the USA because it just wasn't entertaining enough for the amounts of monies that Bernie/CVC 'required'.

Ferrari says that it needs more exposure in America, but it still wants more money from CVC!

Not only have they got to build it, but they have to make it worthwhile in the long run too. And I'm just not that sure they are going to be able to do that.

But I really do hope it succeeds, because the track outline looks great.

[dyewat808]

I hope so too, and the fact that they are already trying to bring other kinds of events, and not just motorsport to the track gives me confidence that it will succeed. The other thing is that it has the kind of layout that might potentially lend itself to other series too.

I just hope that the US will succeed where the other new tracks haven't

[JeremySmith]

Circuit of The Americas is scheduled for completion by the end of April 2012...

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by BobHWS

Fair question, but now that construction is underway, it's probably a moot point.

In any case, my answer would be, ideally, one of these possibilities:

1. One of the USA's top road racing courses. Unfortunately though, none of these tracks have the infrastructure (accessibility, paddock, pits, hotels, etc.) to support F1.

2. Indianapolis: not the perfect location because it's an oval adapted to a road course. But it's a good location (more central than Austin) and it has all the infrastructure. Despite the year of the tire debacle, the race worked quite well here, probably better than any other previous USA venue. As usual, though, Bernie got greedy and asked for more money and Indy refused to pay.

3. Some new purpose-built F1 track built near a place that has more of a natural fan base for F1 and near a city that has more sex appeal than Austin. I would suggest southern or northern California, Miami or possibly New York. But I don't think any of those are realistic possibilities.

So we're stuck with Austin. I give credit to Tavo for making this happen and I accept that it will happen. But I don't have to like it. I might even like to attend a race there someday. Though as long as there is an F1 race in Montreal and I can afford to attend just one race a year, I will always choose Montreal over Austin. Anyone who is familiar with both cities should understand why, but as the saying goes, chacun Ã* son goût.

Some good suggestions BobHWS but none of them really make F1 sense as they all would need some rather serious upgrades or downgrades depending on how one sees it, so the best solution is to start from a clean sheet of paper and leave tracks like Watkins Glen alone, another words we don't want another Donington Park..

I agree you don't have to like it, and I am sure some won't many will find something to complain about, because if we did not have some moaning and groaning it would not be F1 would it!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

F1 or any other type of motor sport has nothing to do with teachers or budgets for education...

It is being built by the way...

So I gather.

The money Texas is considering paying Ecclestone comes from state funds, as does the money that goes to pay those teachers who are now losing their jobs because of budget cuts.

[vin13]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

So I gather.

The money Texas is considering paying Ecclestone comes from state funds, as does the money that goes to pay those teachers who are now losing their jobs because of budget cuts.

http://www.texastrustfunds.com/6.html

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

So I gather.

The money Texas is considering paying Ecclestone comes from state funds, as does the money that goes to pay those teachers who are now losing their jobs because of budget cuts.

I am sympathetic when I hear that teachers, members of the police force, or first responders loose their jobs due to lack of state funds, it is not a good thing of course and given the choice I would choose to send funds in that direction..

However why are we sending the space shuttle up again to the tune of a $100 million a pop, we could use that money to fund education..

Tavo Hellmund has been working on this idea for at least ten years, he is a smart man by all accounts and I believe knows Bernie very well and is not looking at this project through rose coloured specs, the facility is going to be used for many other things apart from a F1 race each year..

To be honest with you I like Austin just the way it is, and as much as I love the idea of a F1 race in my neck of the woods I do not wish to see it become a negative project and spoil what is a great city to live and work in..

We have 300 Million people in the USA if they charge a fair ticket price that folks can afford then I think a few will come to see this F1 thingy is all about maybe?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I am sympathetic when I hear that teachers, members of the police force, or first responders loose their jobs due to lack of state funds, it is not a good thing of course and given the choice I would choose to send funds in that direction..

However why are we sending the space shuttle up again to the tune of a $100 million a pop, we could use that money to fund education..

Tavo Hellmund has been working on this idea for at least ten years, he is a smart man by all accounts and I believe knows Bernie very well and is not looking at this project through rose coloured specs, the facility is going to be used for many other things apart from a F1 race each year..

To be honest with you I like Austin just the way it is, and as much as I love the idea of a F1 race in my neck of the woods I do not wish to see it become a negative project and spoil what is a great city to live and work in..

We have 300 Million people in the USA if they charge a fair ticket price that folks can afford then I think a few will come to see this F1 thingy is all about maybe?

I'm personally in favour of space exploration and I believe the shuttle mission money was budgeted for quite some time ago and It's shame that Texas state money can't be redirected to save those jobs but I do take what you say on board.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I'm personally in favour of space exploration and I believe the shuttle mission money was budgeted for quite some time ago and It's shame that Texas state money can't be redirected to save those jobs but I do take what you say on board.

Of course you are, and so am I..

SHAME, yes without taking the thread totally off the rails, lets look at that word closely...

We can talk about this subject in another thread if you would like to do that..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Of course you are, and so am I..

SHAME, yes without taking the thread totally off the rails, lets look at that word closely...

We can talk about this subject in another thread if you would like to do that..

Thanks but no need, I've made my point.

[Spritle]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

We have 300 Million people in the USA if they charge a fair ticket price that folks can afford then I think a few will come to see this F1 thingy is all about maybe?

This is one of the places where I believe this F1 circus could fail miserably in Austin. The cost of tickets and the cost & hassle of attending the race.

When the race was held at Indy, Tony George and IMS did their very best to keep the ticket prices reasonable. Parking was fair too. I had fantastic seats that cost me about $120 and way less for practice and quali. Food prices were also cheap at the track. One of the biggest reasons George balked at Bernie's price increase was the small margins due to the "affordability" factor he was trying to achieve. The only rip-off in the whole race weekend experience was the hotels which gouged like crazy. Indy was also located geographically closer to the northeast where the majority of the population resides making driving an option for the curious who might want to attend only one day's events.

If the Austin ticket prices are on par with the rest of F1 venues at 2-6 times the cost of Indy; I'm afraid the casual US fans, (and lets face it, 99% of them could care less about F1 and NEVER will), will check it out once or twice and decide it isn't worth it. Then of course you have the heat and hassle factor and gouging which no one can predict. If it costs a casual fan and arm & leg to get to Austin, ticket prices are high, it is scorching hot on race day, the ride to the track is the nightmare they predict it will be and the hotels & restaurants decide "all them F1 fans is easy pickins"; expect non-fanatical folks that are casually interested to quickly decide they have better things to spend their money on.

I hate to quote Bill Clinton but "it's the economy stupid!" Europeans may be used to paying a lot for petrol but in a country were driving huge distances is often a necessity and considered a birthright, folks here are cutting back A LOT on unnecessary expenses. Attendance at US sporting events is down and we are talking about ones they care about! Even NASCAR dropped ticket prices at certain events as has Major League Baseball.

There is no sense comparing Austin to other cities, circumstances or venues throughout the world though the eyes of a European or real US F1 fan. This is America, the same place that ignores football, (soccer) no matter how many times the rest of the world tells them they should be interested. My prediction, F1 will have a tough time after the first few years keeping the US citizenry interested, but maybe Tavo & company don't really care. I have to believe the choice of a city less than 200 miles from the Mexican border and the name of the track are an indication that the focus wasn't on the US and that more than 3/4 of the eggs that USGP basket aren't expected to come from US chickens. Maybe they should have built the track just across the border in Mexico and saved Texas & Austin a bundle of expense.

It's a good thing, a really good thing for the Texas taxpayers that there are plans for other events to use the facility because F1 offers nothing that America can't live without, unless of course they stage a royal wedding at every USGP.

Good luck Austin, you'll need it!

[Richard C]

If I was in TX I would be excited to have F1 in my backyard. But I don't buy the "centrally located" part. It may be central, but it is not convenient. I think it would have made more sense to locate it based upon population density.

http://www.mapofusa.net/us-population-density-map.htm

So I think the North East (or maybe Southern California) is where I would put it. I also agree it should be on a purpose built track vs. trying to converting (ruining) an existing well regarded track. But those requirements are a steep hill to climb.

But I hope it works out for Austin!

Richard

[Purist]

The trouble is, with land values, wages to try and keep up with the cost of living in those areas, and who knows what else, the track would cost $500 million if it was in one of those more "desirable" areas. On the bright side, they weren't trying to do this at the height of the real-estate boom, or it could have cost as much as Abu Dhabi to build the thing, especially in California.