US Grand Prix- Austin (USA)

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Texas

OBTW: Aussie V8 Supercars to Austin


It's official boys.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte....html#comments

Holy ****.

I thought of calling this one in, it's a great idea and a great series I might add..

[ujoint]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I thought of calling this one in, it's a great idea and a great series I might add..

Hope they don't run the ridiculous restrictor plates and rubber bumper cars. No cookie cutter racing would be a big plus and a real scare to NASCAR if the fans really actually like what they are seeing. Aussie's are pretty cool. My missus is one.

[BobHWS]

Originally Posted by Martin Whitmarsh

America doesn't need us, but we need to conquer it. In the past we didn't do enough. I think we need to go there; maybe we need two races per year.

When will the power brokers of F1 finally accept that their sport is simply not popular in the United States? For proof of this fact, you need look no further than the TV ratings for the sport. For example, here are the ratings for the recent live broadcast of the Canadian GP on FOX (one of the big 4 free, over-the-air networks in the U.S.):

F1 Canadian Grand Prix Up on FOX: The June 12 Formula 1 Canadian Grand Prix on FOX earned a 0.8 final rating and 1.196 million viewers, up 14% in ratings and 28% in viewership from last year (0.7, 934K)

It's nice that the ratings were up this year over last year, but the F1 audience is still miniscule when compared to NASCAR and the big three sports of football, baseball and basketball. The size of the U.S. fan base for F1 is comparable to that of pro cycling-- it is made up of a small number of very enthusiastic, knowledgeable fans and that's all. Most U.S. sports fans and even many U.S motor racing fans can't even accurately describe what F1 is.

I don't see any hope of increasing the size of that fan base no matter how much F1 Kool-Aid is offered to American sports fans. The one thing that might give at least a temporary boost to the sport is for an American to win the world championship. Lance Armstrong winning the Tour de France certainly helped boost cycling's profile, but it is still very much a minor sport. Furthermore, there is no American driver currently in the sport, let alone one who would have a chance to win the championship.

Originally Posted by Martin Whitmarsh

We've got Texas and I hope it's going to be a very successful race, but the natural place for us is east coast/west coast...Long Beach, and around New York, those are the places where we can really create an interest in Formula 1.

Martin is right about this, but didn't he get the memo that Bernie decided that Austin, Texas is the epicenter of F1 fandom in the U.S.? Furthermore, as has been thoroughly discussed here, there's just no chance of building an appropriate F1 venue in NY or California. But at least he spoke the truth about the best locations for F1 in the U.S.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by BobHWS

When will the power brokers of F1 finally accept that their sport is simply not popular in the United States? For proof of this fact, you need look no further than the TV ratings for the sport. For example, here are the ratings for the recent live broadcast of the Canadian GP on FOX (one of the big 4 free, over-the-air networks in the U.S.):

F1 Canadian Grand Prix Up on FOX: The June 12 Formula 1 Canadian Grand Prix on FOX earned a 0.8 final rating and 1.196 million viewers, up 14% in ratings and 28% in viewership from last year (0.7, 934K)

It's nice that the ratings were up this year over last year, but the F1 audience is still miniscule when compared to NASCAR and the big three sports of football, baseball and basketball. The size of the U.S. fan base for F1 is comparable to that of pro cycling-- it is made up of a small number of very enthusiastic, knowledgeable fans and that's all. Most U.S. sports fans and even many U.S motor racing fans can't even accurately describe what F1 is.

I don't see any hope of increasing the size of that fan base no matter how much F1 Kool-Aid is offered to American sports fans. The one thing that might give at least a temporary boost to the sport is for an American to win the world championship. Lance Armstrong winning the Tour de France certainly helped boost cycling's profile, but it is still very much a minor sport. Furthermore, there is no American driver currently in the sport, let alone one who would have a chance to win the championship.



Martin is right about this, but didn't he get the memo that Bernie decided that Austin, Texas is the epicenter of F1 fandom in the U.S.? Furthermore, as has been thoroughly discussed here, there's just no chance of building an appropriate F1 venue in NY or California. But at least he spoke the truth about the best locations for F1 in the U.S.

Long Beach is not the best location, Martin is wrong about this one..

[BobHWS]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Long Beach is not the best location, Martin is wrong about this one..

I don't think he meant that Long Beach in particular would be ideal. He has to realize that it has many inadequacies as an F1 venue, starting with the fact that it's a street course. But he mentioned it because somewhere in southern California would be good and Long Beach once had a race and it was successful there. I don't think anybody would seriously propose returning to Long Beach though. It's too bad that there is no track suitable for F1 in southern California. I don't see that changing. Heck, they can't even put together a deal to build an NFL stadium in the LA area.

[ujoint]

Great suspence for a year anyway. Guess no one paid attention to the F1 fan base in Indianapolis that was completely destroyed by the F1 ownership and gross mismanagement of that event. Austin I wish you well.

[BobHWS]

Originally Posted by ujoint

Great suspence for a year anyway. Guess no one paid attention to the F1 fan base in Indianapolis that was completely destroyed by the F1 ownership and gross mismanagement of that event. Austin I wish you well.

Considering everything (facilities, fan base, tradition, lack of alternatives, etc) about F1 in the U.S., Indy is still the best location for the USGP. It's a shame that Bernie destroyed what they tried to build there. Austin was smart to sign a 10-year deal with Bernie, leaving him no room to renegotiate his fee after a few years. But one is left to wonder whether the state of Texas will want out of the deal before the 10 years are up. Without the $25M/year from the state, the race is not viable.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by BobHWS

Considering everything (facilities, fan base, tradition, lack of alternatives, etc) about F1 in the U.S., Indy is still the best location for the USGP. It's a shame that Bernie destroyed what they tried to build there. Austin was smart to sign a 10-year deal with Bernie, leaving him no room to renegotiate his fee after a few years. But one is left to wonder whether the state of Texas will want out of the deal before the 10 years are up. Without the $25M/year from the state, the race is not viable.

Texas will get better value for the race if everyone has to follow a torturous route to Austin. They should shut the airport down and really put a benefit in the local industries. Hotels, car hire, travel etc.
This fly in Thursday and leave Sunday provides very little local benefit.

[Spritle]

I have no doubt the Austin venue will be successful in the long run, I just have my doubts F1 will be a part of that long term success. F1 was the foot-in-the-door but Austin would do well to support the other series and events that are signing up to race there and encourage more because F1 will have a tough time conquering the passions of more than a few die hard US fans and F1 will make it hard for Austin to love them back when it's time for a contract renewal.

F1 & Tavo's gang seem to be banking heavily on fan support from outside of the US. The choice of name and the location of the track are clear indications of that, not to mention the constant reminders of where the extra 100,000 fans will come from. But that makes me wonder, does F1 in the USA become a success if hardly anyone in the host country cares? It's like asking Salerno to build a baseball stadium so once a year the New York Yankees could play a three game exhibition series there. Just because you got it built and have passionate fans around the world, is baseball something that will ever gain wild popularity in Italy? Turkey, China and some newer venues are poster children for that ambivalence towards F1. Could those venues be considered a success, have those countries been conquered?

Football, (soccer), cricket and rugby among others have been waiting a long time to soak in some of that American passion for sport. I have a feeling F1 is WAY back in that long lived queue.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by Spritle

I have no doubt the Austin venue will be successful in the long run, I just have my doubts F1 will be a part of that long term success. F1 was the foot-in-the-door but Austin would do well to support the other series and events that are signing up to race there and encourage more because F1 will have a tough time conquering the passions of more than a few die hard US fans and F1 will make it hard for Austin to love them back when it's time for a contract renewal.

F1 & Tavo's gang seem to be banking heavily on fan support from outside of the US. The choice of name and the location of the track are clear indications of that, not to mention the constant reminders of where the extra 100,000 fans will come from.

The most important driver for drawing fans to the track at Indianapolis was Montoya. There were a TON of Colombians there. That factor no longer exists in F1 obviously (Maldonado is no Juan Montoya). You might be able to get a little bit of a Mexican pride factor going in Sergio Perez as there's a lot of Mexicans living in Texas. I don't know how popular he is though with Mexicans in comparison to some of the CART heroes they had back in the day like Adrian Fernandez, also as he's not contending for wins and in the back half of the field you don't know how long he'll be staying in F1. When Scott Speed was in F1, I didn't get the feeling that anyone cared to the point of increased interest in F1 or for the U.S. Grand Prix. You look at the current F1 grid and none of the top drivers except Hamilton strike me as having any charisma, so none of them appear willing to play promoter to drum up interest in the event.

But that makes me wonder, does F1 in the USA become a success if hardly anyone in the host country cares?

Well once you leave Montreal I don't think many Canadians know or care about F1 to be honest (was having an argument on another sports forum on racing and a Canadian that had no idea who anyone in F1 was said "I might know something about it if they had a race in Canada" ). And that Grand Prix is a success I think most would state. So it is possible to have a successful race with most of the country completely unaware of it.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by Texas

Ryan, the answer is in what you posted. I'll let you figure it out.

wonderful non-answer answer to a critiqued analysis, that would make a politician proud

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Long Beach is not the best location, Martin is wrong about this one..

If you want to have a race near one of the huge cities, that's as good a location as you're going to get. You may not think Long Beach is the best location, but for locations that actually have a chance of happening, I don't see how you can rank it any lower than #2 or #3.

I've always thought the best place for an F1 race in the U.S. just from a cultural point of view was a Miami street race. The city and F1 fit one another perfectly.

[Spritle]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

The most important driver for drawing fans to the track at Indianapolis was Montoya. There were a TON of Colombians there.

It was a combination of the Colombian passion for F1 AND their passion for Montoya.

If he was Montoya from Turkey, I doubt we would have seen that many white crescent moons in the stands. I admit I don't follow NASCAR that closely but I have yet to see what I saw at Indy in Charlotte, but who's counting heads at a NASCAR event. Also Montoya was successful and far from a "foreigner" to US open wheel fans, especially those fans who regularly visited IMS. He was in fact the ONLY F1 driver many casual F1 fans I met at Indy ever heard of, (sorry Michael Schumacher).

There was also the Villeneuve factor as a draw at Indy for similar reasons. I know from being there the Colombians were the most visible & vocal but I have a feeling Canada was well represented too.

The Scott Speed factor was negligible I suspect for the reasons you stated, and maybe more importantly, because of the lack of a US team. I also suspect the results oriented US sports fans grew impatient with a racing series that is so predictable, especially when your driver is in a crummy car.

Too bad USF1 couldn't make a go of it. In the World Baseball Classic; plenty of American citizens play for the national teams of their birth or their ancestors, but the majority of "Americans citizens" follow and cheer for the USA team. It's like the Olympics or Tour de France, put an American athlete on a foreign team and folks will watch something else. It's just a little bit different here.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

If you want to have a race near one of the huge cities, that's as good a location as you're going to get. You may not think Long Beach is the best location, but for locations that actually have a chance of happening, I don't see how you can rank it any lower than #2 or #3.

I've always thought the best place for an F1 race in the U.S. just from a cultural point of view was a Miami street race. The city and F1 fit one another perfectly.

Long Beach is an excellent location and easy to get to, especially with modern airliners like the Triple 7. I always thought Vegas would be a good location. Again it's easy to get to, it was built for entertainment and could easily accommodate fans/teams and it hasn't got that humid climate like Austin.

[Spritle]

How about New York City with a view of the skyline?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spritle

How about New York City with a view of the skyline?

That was one of Bernie's pipe dreams.

[Purist]

He should have tried to revive the Meadowlands Grand Prix, I guess.

[Marbot]

Watkins Glen?

[Spritle]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Watkins Glen?

That's MY pipe dream!

[tlongman]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Watkins Glen?

YES PLEASE!!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by tlongman

YES PLEASE!!

That would be nice.

[PabloTeK]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That would be nice.

It would be until Bernie got his hands on it!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by PabloTeK

It would be until Bernie got his hands on it!

From what I've heard, someone definitely needs to get their hands on it, and soon!

[tlongman]

I go there every year for the NASCAR race (not because I'm a NASCAR fan, I just have a lot of family that goes too) and I was there a few weeks ago for the Mobil 1 Car Swap. They have made a ton of capital improvements to that facility in the last 5 years or so, particularly in the last few months. They rebuilt almost all the grandstands and made them twice a big, and rebuilt the Crown Royal Club at the top of the esses. This all comes after they brought in the massive frontstretch grandstand that used to be at Nazareth Speedway and rebuilt the media center.

Concerning the potential for an F1 race, The seating capacity is certainly there now, and all those old wooden bleachers are gone, replaced with nice aluminum seating. The other issue that has always been present is the lack of hotel space. Just last year a new 5 star hotel opened in downtown Watkins Glen overlooking Seneca Lake. On its own thats not enough, but its a start. If the track had a commitment from Ecclestone that Formula 1 would come if they fixed the issues, they could probably build a hotel on site like VIRginia International Raceway did a few years back. They have the space for it.

Runoff areas would need to be addressed at the esses and at the toe of the boot, but otherwise its not that bad. The track has already paved many of the runoff areas in the last few years. The last issue I see would be the pit facilities but again, a commitment from F1 would go a long way towards making that happen. Watkins Glen has the rare advantage of being a bit isolated but still being relatively close to many major Metropolitan areas (NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Toronto), and the track, as many of you know, is awesome. If they could get 10k people to show up to a 1.5 hour demonstration, imagine what the potential would be for a full F1 weekend?

[Marbot]

So there you have it Mr Ecclestone. Watkins Glen.