[Driver] Schumacher vs Rosberg Reloaded: The Return of the Jedi

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Oran Park Forever

Surely Bertrand Gachot & the British judicial system deserve some credit for MS's career path....


.

Yes. But I can't help but feel that BE had a hand in that somewhere.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I was simply making the point that 1994 was still early in his F1 career and there was no way he could have been the megastar so early.

On that basis alone, how do you rate Vettel?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by phoenix

On that basis alone, how do you rate Vettel?

Not bad.

Shows promise.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not bad.

Shows promise.

Not really bad...

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

It is very much a sign of the times!

True.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

I assume this is not your biggest issue with MS but I do feel you are understating a bit the importance that this aspect of his character brought to the table. that discipline to pour over the numbers combined with the fitness training and the success that came as a result means all drivers now have an expectation to be both an athlete and a student. he raised the level of the game for all time and that imo adds to his greatness.

I don't understate it's importance as far as his success is concerned. But when it comes to assessing drivers, I think it should hold less value compared to other characteristics. No doubt, Schumacher seems to have fully exploited these non-driving areas, that weren't fully taken advantage of by other drivers previous to 1994.

I'm just saying his standing, compared to other drivers, is disproportionate. It's ok to "he was the greatest driver ever", but there has to be something relevant to back it up. I've just found it annoying, over the years, to hear/read endless, sycophantic ****. Then you get pointed to the stats . I know what the stats are. I also know how, more than most sports, they don't tell the full story with F1/motorsport.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

but its not all away from the track activities though. Great in and out laps during the refuelling era helped too. no one got that better. The 2004 French GP comes to mind with their decision to switch to a 4 stop strategy in order to leapfrog a faster Alonso. He was smart enough to work the system and had the physical skills to back it up.

Yeah, I remember that race. Now, was it "their" or "his" decsion to change strategy? If it was "their" decision, then there's a win for Schu that had nothing to do with his driving. Thinking about it now, you look at the changes that were made to the qualifying format in 2003. Those changes were designed to stop Schu/Ferrari having a season like they did in 2002. It worked. Once they figured out to limit it's effect on their performance, '04 became the steamrolling season '02 was for them. Also, while in/out laps have become an important focus on modern gp. It's only been so as a result of rules that interfere with the natural form of racing.

Originally Posted by Adam43

sorry, subtlety was my enemy there.

I was simply making the point that 1994 was still early in his F1 career and there was no way he could have been the megastar so early.
I see his rise to megastar developing all the way to the mid 2000s at a fairly constant rate. I simply see little odd in that. Yes 1994 helped, but winning the first few races and nine overall deserved the star rating to be upped. I'm probably just lost on what the point was, sorry.

Ok,so there was a misinterpretation. So I take it you were into F1 after '94? That being the case, Schumacher was defintely a megastar, half way through 94. No Senna, Prost. Mansell wasn't full time. The challenger being an unfashionable Hill.

A very young driver (25 still is very young), who's about to win one of the biggest trophies in world sport? Schu was definetely a megastar, who's name penetrated beyond people who liked motorsport. Even people who don't follow sport would've known who he is. There may not be a line graph to show to what degree he was a megastar over the following decade, and he hadn't fully taken advantage of it financially, but he was one.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by phoenix

On that basis alone, how do you rate Vettel?

Pretty damn good!
Similar situation to Scumacher, won WC in third full year and followed it up. Then results and path starts to differ significantly.

Growing towards megastar, but may not...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Pretty damn good!
Similar situation to Scumacher, won WC in third full year and followed it up. Then results and path starts to differ significantly.

Growing towards megastar, but may not...

Ya I'd go along with that Adam. In terms of championship results, Vettel is beginning to exhibit the relentless domination Schumacher did in the 1990s... but he hasn't had anything like the challenges Schumacher had in terms of team building/leadership, nor having to lift a crown in a car that wasn't the best. Maybe Vettel can do that and more, we've yet to see. Previously, many had questioned Vettel's ability to win from further down the field and he sharply silenced them with some stupendous drives in wet and dry. Also, we're about to see things turned on their head with the new regs in 2014... and Vettel may well move teams too.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by davyboy

but he hasn't had anything like the challenges Schumacher had in terms of team building/leadership, nor having to lift a crown in a car that wasn't the best.

Mark Webber is a world class driver, but in his hands, Red Bull wouldn't have had one single drivers title. That is the difference. All well and good saying he has the best car (although i still think that the Mac was a better car in 2012), but you still nedd a driver who can deliver. Seb has scored 250 more points than Mark in the last 3 seasons, with the same equipment.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Mark Webber is a world class driver....

Some might debate that......

Some might say he's an above-average driver who's been driving a very good car for several seasons....

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Mark Webber is a world class driver, but in his hands, Red Bull wouldn't have had one single drivers title. That is the difference. All well and good saying he has the best car (although i still think that the Mac was a better car in 2012), but you still nedd a driver who can deliver. Seb has scored 250 more points than Mark in the last 3 seasons, with the same equipment.

No question about that at all. Vettel is a scintillating driver and, despite what the polls indicate, the best about at the moment [IMO]. I guess my point is that he has yet to face and master the challenges Schumacher had to... and of course, he's yet to rack up the tally Schumacher did. Maybe he will do both. There's no evidence to suggest the contrary right now... and there isn't anyone with the same potential career longevity who looks like they could challenge him either.