V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by MacrosNZ

I'll be there on Saturday on the stand for the University of Auckland's FSAE team. Come and say hi.

I'll do that! I will have the young goats (kids) with me too so I will have to restrain them from eating the cars...

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by MS Fan

Just to add to on_to_it comments, from a pure racing point of view it is not always the loud noisey classes that provide the best racing. Some of the support classes, some of the time, provide better racing than the high profile classes. It not just about outright speed.

Absolutely correct, and that may answer one of your questions Goat Boy. Some of the best racing I have watched has been in the Swift class and even some V8 Supercar guys were blown away at how hard and how well those boys raced at Hamilton last year.

Sorry, I'm way of-topic so I'll get off my horse now

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Absolutely correct, and that may answer one of your questions Goat Boy. Some of the best racing I have watched has been in the Swift class and even some V8 Supercar guys were blown away at how hard and how well those boys raced at Hamilton last year.

Sorry, I'm way of-topic so I'll get off my horse now

Sorry, off topic again (can we start a new thread on this maybe?) - I have never at any stage called into question the quality of the racing or the abilities of its many fine young drivers. I am, however, calling into question the calibre of the machinery that they are racing in - do I want to pay to watch cars that look and sound like sewing machines doing 150 km/h down the back-straight of Pukekohe (but with close racing) or would I rather watch Kenny Smith take his F5000 down there at 300km/h? I think you know what I'm going to say there...

If I want just close racing I'd rather go watch the karts...

[MS Fan]

I think this discussion just illustrates that not everybody is looking for the same thing at a race meeting and so they need to have a balanced race programme that appeals to the biggest audience possible.

You also need to be careful the mix of the classes, as some drivers are involved with multiple classes but potentially would enter only 1 class at a Tier 1 meeting, so this could end up with reduced numbers.

[mountainstar]

There is no question that you need crowd pleasing support classes and also some for up and comers to prove their worth.

I have thought about this and already some rancor that has been demonstrated with waving around threats of lawsuits et al, that can't we all get along?

I propose a Super V8 weekend.

V8 Supertourers and NZV8's run their own races on the same weekend at the same track along with a GT class, F5000 and whatever local supports people want as North and South Islands have some different series.

It will be an orgy of V8's for a weekend, costs can be split and everyone should be happy.

[on_to_it]

MS, you beat me to it. If you believe the TMC figures, the attendance figures were up over 18% for the 2010/11 season compared to the previous year, so there's something for everyone and they are turning up in increasing numbers. Certainly there is room for improvement though. Personally I like the variety; nimble little cars bump-drafting down the straights and two-wheeling on corners, the Porsches (gone now), and the big bangers.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

There is no question that you need crowd pleasing support classes and also some for up and comers to prove their worth.

I have thought about this and already some rancor that has been demonstrated with waving around threats of lawsuits et al, that can't we all get along?

I propose a Super V8 weekend.

V8 Supertourers and NZV8's run their own races on the same weekend at the same track along with a GT class, F5000 and whatever local supports people want as North and South Islands have some different series.

It will be an orgy of V8's for a weekend, costs can be split and everyone should be happy.

Good concept and I'd go. But isn't that pretty much what should have been on offer at Tier 1. Surely the best thing would have been installing the NZST class as the new "Premier" class and running the NZV8's separately, almost as a feeder class. If you can fund the move up, great. Otherwise stay with your current NZV8 as it seems a number still want to do. I suspect one of the major causes for the split was the goings-on with the dynamic duo at TMC amongst other things, but that's a whole new thread really. So once again, isn't the controlling element money?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Good concept and I'd go. But isn't that pretty much what should have been on offer at Tier 1. Surely the best thing would have been installing the NZST class as the new "Premier" class and running the NZV8's separately, almost as a feeder class. If you can fund the move up, great. Otherwise stay with your current NZV8 as it seems a number still want to do. I suspect one of the major causes for the split was the goings-on with the dynamic duo at TMC amongst other things, but that's a whole new thread really. So once again, isn't the controlling element money?

Money, power, control, not always bad things. Competition improves the breed often. NZ motorsport I think needs a bit of a jolt.

I've been to race meetings around the world, the ones I've been to in NZ, including Tier 1, have been a bit flat or low key. I'm not saying it's bad, just that a lot could be done on marketing and promotion to take it to another level. People have disagreed with me in the past, but I think more could be done to create a better show that will draw TV and crowds to the track.

V8 Supercars has been successful in doing that, often before V8SC you'd draw 5000 people to a race. They put on a good show and event and it brings people in.

You go to any town that has a Nascar race, year round and you will have no doubt there is a track nearby and a Nascar race every year.

[on_to_it]

Money, power, control, not always bad things. - It just depends who's in charge!

Competition improves the breed often. NZ motorsport I think needs a bit of a jolt. - Agreed

V8 Supercars has been successful in doing that, often before V8SC you'd draw 5000 people to a race. They put on a good show and event and it brings people in. - Oz is a very wealthy country with massive resources; they have many advantages over NZ.

You go to any town that has a Nascar race, year round and you will have no doubt there is a track nearby and a Nascar race every year. - Money again, we can't compete on that scale.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Money, power, control, not always bad things. - It just depends who's in charge!

Competition improves the breed often. NZ motorsport I think needs a bit of a jolt. - Agreed

V8 Supercars has been successful in doing that, often before V8SC you'd draw 5000 people to a race. They put on a good show and event and it brings people in. - Oz is a very wealthy country with massive resources; they have many advantages over NZ.

You go to any town that has a Nascar race, year round and you will have no doubt there is a track nearby and a Nascar race every year. - Money again, we can't compete on that scale.

No doubt, I was just using them as examples that a lot could be done to draw more to the sport. I'm not expecting 100,000 people to turn up, but it could be better.

[DX20VT]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I am, however, calling into question the calibre of the machinery that they are racing in - do I want to pay to watch cars that look and sound like sewing machines doing 150 km/h down the back-straight of Pukekohe (but with close racing) or would I rather watch Kenny Smith take his F5000 down there at 300km/h? I think you know what I'm going to say there...

If I want just close racing I'd rather go watch the karts...

Well then you'r opposite to what most people I know want to see.

Would you rather see 3 F5000's race down the straight with 5 car lengths between them,
or 20 Suzuki Swifts 4 wide into the hairpin at 100kmh,

Most people i know would rather see larger fields than faster fields.

Has there been any announcement or indication of any support classes for any of the ST rounds?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Money, power, control, not always bad things. - It just depends who's in charge!

Competition improves the breed often. NZ motorsport I think needs a bit of a jolt. - Agreed

V8 Supercars has been successful in doing that, often before V8SC you'd draw 5000 people to a race. They put on a good show and event and it brings people in. - Oz is a very wealthy country with massive resources; they have many advantages over NZ.

You go to any town that has a Nascar race, year round and you will have no doubt there is a track nearby and a Nascar race every year. - Money again, we can't compete on that scale.

I have to pull you up on points 3 & 4. The fact that there is more money in Oz is a cop-out - loads of people use that excuse. We used to get huge crowds back in the 60's to motorsport events - there was less to do then for sure, but motorsport hardly gets on the radar here these days, whereas rugby gets huge coverage. It's not just about the money, it's about the media too.

As Mountainstar says, it's huge event when NASCAR comes to town, why not the V8's? Get the local council behind it, the local radio station, we can do it!!

[on_to_it]

Goat Boy - you're entitled to disagree, as am I.

New Zealand was a prosperous country in the 60's and there was far less competition for the entertainment dollar. New Zealand has all sorts of money woes at the moment and there are no quick-and-easy solutions either. And I don't think you can compare Rugby with motorsport in NZ, they are just on different levels.

The scale of motorsport in Oz, the money that circulates around it and the sheer numbers applying to just about everything else associated with it gives them a huge advantage.

I like your enthusiasm but she's a hard road!

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

Well then you'r opposite to what most people I know want to see.

Would you rather see 3 F5000's race down the straight with 5 car lengths between them,
or 20 Suzuki Swifts 4 wide into the hairpin at 100kmh,

Most people i know would rather see larger fields than faster fields.

Has there been any announcement or indication of any support classes for any of the ST rounds?

Can't be speed freaks like me then

I'd take the F5000's any day of the week!! AND their fields are three times the size of any of the Tier 1 support classes anyway - we had 32 cars entered at the FOM earlier this year.

MP may be able to answer the support classes question, but one can't help wondering, given that Chris Abbott is in the V8ST mix, and his brother David is heavily into the F5000's and NZFOM, the two might share an event??? Maybe??

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Goat Boy - you're entitled to disagree, as am I.

New Zealand was a prosperous country in the 60's and there was far less competition for the entertainment dollar. New Zealand has all sorts of money woes at the moment and there are no quick-and-easy solutions either. And I don't think you can compare Rugby with motorsport in NZ, they are just on different levels.

The scale of motorsport in Oz, the money that circulates around it and the sheer numbers applying to just about everything else associated with it gives them a huge advantage.

I like your enthusiasm but she's a hard road!

Ah, but she's a hard road finding the perfect woman, boy, but worth it they say

Hey, another idea, how about using something like Grabone, or Groupy or Treatme, and do half price entry to these V8 events? They have very big databases now so that's sure to get bums on seats. So many people never even know when the show rolls into town, and yet it could be such a big thing! Like the A1GP was in Taupo first year, that was such a great event, the whole town got involved. Pity about the subsequent years though...

I know it's a bigger ask in Auckland but at least with Hampton Downs you get the Hamiltron crowd as well.

[E36ST]

Discounting ticket prices isn't the answer in my opinion. If the ST's are putting on a quality show then people will be prepared to pay a reasonable entry price. Last I heard was that they were thinking of a $30 weekend pass which seems ridiculously low & on a par with the previous Tier 1 meetings. Even with these previous rounds the drivers were managing to obtain and sell on weekend entry passes for as little as $15.

Makes it fairly difficult for the circuit owners to use income from the gate takings to invest in new infrastructure and upgrading facilities.

Personally I'm not all that impressed with the underhandedness (is that a word?) that has gone on with the creation of this ST class but if what I hear is correct that one of their meetings next year (October) will be an endurance race featuring big name international drivers (Dixon, Franchitti, Whincup... etc) then that can only be a good thing for motorsport in NZ.

I just hope they don't f... I mean screw it up by cutting the bones out of ticket pricing, or in any other way for that matter. Hopefully now that it's here (well, almost) it will be rolled out in a professional manner.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by E36ST

Discounting ticket prices isn't the answer in my opinion. If the ST's are putting on a quality show then people will be prepared to pay a reasonable entry price. Last I heard was that they were thinking of a $30 weekend pass which seems ridiculously low & on a par with the previous Tier 1 meetings. Even with these previous rounds the drivers were managing to obtain and sell on weekend entry passes for as little as $15.

Makes it fairly difficult for the circuit owners to use income from the gate takings to invest in new infrastructure and upgrading facilities.

Personally I'm not all that impressed with the underhandedness (is that a word?) that has gone on with the creation of this ST class but if what I hear is correct that one of their meetings next year (October) will be an endurance race featuring big name international drivers (Dixon, Franchitti, Whincup... etc) then that can only be a good thing for motorsport in NZ.

I just hope they don't f... I mean screw it up by cutting the bones out of ticket pricing, or in any other way for that matter. Hopefully now that it's here (well, almost) it will be rolled out in a professional manner.

It's not really the discounting thing I was getting at - it's more making it easy for a huge number of people to buy (or at least think about buying) tickets - even if it gets discounted just the once (even 25%), and twice as many people go, hopefully if the racing is good enough and the entertainment is of a high standard, then a portion of the "newbies" who haven't been before will feel compelled to go again.

I still don't see why we can't put on a show almost as big as the V8 Supercars, just using a little more ingenuity to try and get the word out to as many potetial fans as possible.

Here's another idea (that I had some years ago) - how about getting the V8 drivers into local schools - bet the kids would be pressuring their parents to buy tickets then! Or have a race car in a shopping mall, and have a ticket stand there next to it with someone like Boothy or Johnny Mac or Kayne there bigging it up. Have a big screen TV there showing tight racing, burnouts and spins - you'll pull the punters every time!

Mobile phones! There's another avenue! How about a V8 app for iPhones? you can follow a driver and get news updates on their progress. Or a basic game? There are just so many ways to get the word out there!

Why not a V8 Roadshow? Put a car or two and a bunch of drivers into a big flash transporter and visit the hosting town a week or two before the event? Drivers and teams can take it in turns to do the appearances. Get the radio stations to track where the show will be and point the kids to it (it's all about the kids). As above, visit schools, malls, town centres, wherever there are people.

These are the sorts of things we wanted TMC to adopt years ago, but no avail...

I just want to see motorsport flourish in this country!

[Biggy G]

Supertourers have confirmed that the central muscle cars will join them at HD. Read it today on the speedshow website.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

So many people never even know when the show rolls into town, and yet it could be such a big thing!

I know it's a bigger ask in Auckland but at least with Hampton Downs you get the Hamiltron crowd as well.

Nope you wouldn't know when Tier 1 rolls into town. And it might be the same with Supertourers, we don't know yet.

And that is something Nascar is good about, hooking up with sponsors, getting the word out to locals, getting tons of banners out in the community like "Welcome Race Fans", getting show cars out at events, getting local media actively involved.

There is a lot of stuff one can do to drum up interest that doesn't cost a fortune.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

Supertourers have confirmed that the central muscle cars will join them at HD. Read it today on the speedshow website.

for all the ST rounds? i see the CMC are still doing IRC, MG meets and the Tier 1 round @ Manfeild.

[Biggy G]

From here promax:

http://www.speedshow.co.nz/Murph-and...l-ticket-offer

McIntyre also confirms that the opening round on 17 to 19 February will feature three V8ST races with support classes now scheduled to include the Central Muscle Car series.

“V8SuperTourers can let fans know that the first support category to be confirmed are the popular, ground shaking, V8 muscle cars of the Central Muscle Car series. A full field of Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, Falcons, HQs and more will add plenty of excitement to the premiere event with 4 races over Saturday and Sunday.

[promax]

i knew CMC would be @ the February ST meet.. just haven't seen them confirmed @ the rest of the ST rounds.

[Biggy G]

OK, just answered your question with the knowledge from the release. If they didn't mention the other rounds then they must not be locked in as of yet.

Not sure they CMC would travel all the way down to Ruapuna though? Why not approach the local OSCA class or Historic Touring Cars.

[FraserGT]

Originally Posted by brown dog

thanks for this very informative post Straightline, I read it this morning, followed by MP's retort, then the subsequent deletion of both posts which I found rather surprising.

I guess anyone who is remotely interested/connected with the NZV8's would have been aware of some parts of the events that you posted, so interesting to read the full story as you saw it . Although there are probably more questions raised from your post than answers, such as who owned the IP for the new car being developed by VEEGA, which subsequently re emerged as the NZV8ST? Any many more, such as where did the funding for this new car development come from etc. etc. Maybe Mark can answer some of these?

What did you know Conrad that you weren't telling us?

The shareholders of the existing NZV8 class believe the IP of the NZST car is theirs and have filed legal documents to get what they believe was taken from them.

Watch this space...

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by FraserGT

What did you know Conrad that you weren't telling us?

The shareholders of the existing NZV8 class believe the IP of the NZST car is theirs and have filed legal documents to get what they believe was taken from them.

Watch this space...

Wow! I certainly didn't have any knowledge that was about to happen, these were just obvious questions that were raised firstly by the "Car Of Tomorrow" posts originally posted by Mark Petch CEO VEEGA, his subsequent departure from VEEGA, and then the sudden emergence of the "new V8ST" which for all intents appeared to be the same chassis that VEEGA had been paying Paul Ceprnich/PACE to develop. Its one thing to take the ball and go home if you don't like the way the game is playing out, but to steal the bat,wickets and team uniforms on your way out of the grounds is quite something else!

I have no involvement in either of the series, other than as a motorsport enthusaiast with an occasional bit of spectating, but I can only imagine the NZV8/VEEGA fraternity must be spitting nails about this scenario.