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26 May 2015, 16:06 (Ref:3541439) | #126 | |||
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As for the Verstappen incident, one has to assume, as Bert points out, that the Stewards had examined the telemetry before coming to their decision. The decision handed to Toro Rosso states that they have examined all the evidence, and declared that Max was at fault. No "ifs" or "guesses" there, but I did interpret the video somebody else posted as I view it. |
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26 May 2015, 17:09 (Ref:3541452) | #127 | |||
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I posted the entire transcript of the conference here, #108 |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
26 May 2015, 18:31 (Ref:3541478) | #128 | ||
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No. Completely appropriate. Lewis has turned from complete humble kid just trying to be the best, into an utter diva who has to have everything perfect always. And if he makes a mistake, it was never his problem. A few seasons in a Marussia would do him kindly.
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“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.” |
26 May 2015, 18:34 (Ref:3541480) | #129 | |||
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Locost #54 Boldly Leaping where no car has gone before. And then being T-boned. Damn. Survivor of the 2008 2CV 24h!! 2 engines, one accident, 76mph and rain. |
26 May 2015, 19:21 (Ref:3541498) | #130 | |||
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I think we draw a line under this discussion, it amounts to "oooops" as Toto said |
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26 May 2015, 19:55 (Ref:3541516) | #131 | |||
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Sounds like he got them to change their minds; oops indeed. |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
26 May 2015, 23:45 (Ref:3541604) | #132 | ||
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Wonder if anyone looks into whether or not the person/persons who make the strategy calls had a little bet on the outcome of the GP's top three finishing positions.
Seems to me that from time to time one could make a fair bit of coin from the odd manipulation of race results. |
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In life you can plan for most eventualities but you just can't plan for stupid people. |
27 May 2015, 00:11 (Ref:3541609) | #133 | ||
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CanAmMan |
27 May 2015, 02:43 (Ref:3541632) | #134 | |||
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Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
27 May 2015, 13:26 (Ref:3541732) | #135 | ||
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27 May 2015, 14:01 (Ref:3541746) | #136 | |||
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Hakkinen says, in his defence of Max, that Romain moved across the track slighltly and took a different line to the previous lap. As far as I am aware, there is a rule stating that you mustn't move more than once in defence of a line and I don't believe that Grosjean did move more than once. I also don't believe that there is any rule that forbids a driver from taking a different line in successive laps. This is now really flogging a dead horse. The penalty has been given, lessons have been learnt, line drawn in the sand, and it is time to move on, etc, etc. |
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27 May 2015, 18:15 (Ref:3541837) | #137 | ||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
27 May 2015, 18:16 (Ref:3541839) | #138 | |||
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No need to be nasty about another driver in an attempt to defend another. Especially as Grosjean does not have a reputation for dirty driving. He, in the past, made some errors of judgement, but it wasn't dirty. Just like Max did in Monaco. He's a newbie the odd misjudgement will happen. |
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27 May 2015, 23:38 (Ref:3541924) | #139 | ||
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All the telemetry shows is possibly a different brake test on successive laps. Additionally it is well documented how dangerous a one move hack is when left to the last minute. While Grosjean is free to run different lines on different laps, the quickest line does not contain multiple lines, and it is significant that the Lotus braking point was way ahead of where it should have been during a race, and accompanied by a strange jink that caused the contact. There are way too many anomalies in this incident to just penalise Verstappen as the driver who caused this accident. It is a racing incident at best, and a brake test at worst. P.S. Max needs to learn to let go of the steering wheel at the moment of impact! |
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28 May 2015, 03:17 (Ref:3541960) | #140 | ||
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28 May 2015, 09:45 (Ref:3542027) | #141 | ||||||
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I really don't see any anomalies - the stewards decision was pretty conclusive I thought? Based on the evidence available - film and telemetry it seems pretty clear cut. I do think the penalty may have been a bit harsh - it was a mistake on Maxs part but not worth points on the licence. |
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28 May 2015, 10:28 (Ref:3542036) | #142 | ||
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Still can't get my head around what Mercedes were doing with Hamilton
Verstappen unbelievable again despite his crash fantastic to see McLaren score some points |
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28 May 2015, 20:54 (Ref:3542248) | #143 | ||
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28 May 2015, 22:16 (Ref:3542278) | #144 | ||
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I think what may have possibly happened, and not for the first time in racing history, is that Max became transfixed following Romain and as a result may have overshot his own lift-off or braking point. It is so easily done, but it would seem as though the Stewards viewed it as an avoidable collision.
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28 May 2015, 22:57 (Ref:3542286) | #145 | |
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In good company apparently
"Verstappen was looking for a chance to get past and kept a reasonably safe distance, but if the car in front of you changes speed and line, a collision is likely. "In any case, Verstappen should not have been punished for the incident. I have experienced similar situations, and I think it was the wrong judgment." Mika Hakkinen There are brake tests and brake tests, if you behave erratically to a closely following car that is trying to overtake, it becomes difficult for the overtaking car to have a "clean run" at you. The result of this baulking are very likely to be what happened here when the overtaking driver is caught out! To penalise Verstappen further for this crash is just plain daft! |
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28 May 2015, 23:28 (Ref:3542295) | #146 | ||
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I haven't read the report of braking evidence, but if Lotus have shown that Grosjean braked in the same place on previous laps then it's not a brake test. Max had previous laps to see where Grosjean was braking.
If telemetry shows it was no different, then Max lied about Grosjean braking earlier than normal. Perhaps he meant earlier than himself, but that's not Grosjeans fault if Max has better braking. If Mercedes was following a Manor he needs to figure out where they're braking and make sure he doesn't just slam into the back of them. If he does, then it's 100% his fault. The guy in front can't brake any later if that's the car he has. If Grosjean's braking is proven to be the same as on previous laps then the argument is over, it's case closed. That was Max's only defence. You can't start claiming Grosjean was moving around like the Kovalainen/Webber crash and many others, because all he did was protect the inside line a little. Max simply misjudged it because he's still a bit wild/aggressive and hasn't learnt to be more patient yet. Points off his license though ... bit harsh. Should be a grid penalty at worst, maybe drivers point penalty. |
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28 May 2015, 23:40 (Ref:3542298) | #147 | |
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http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3...enalty-unfair/
"Grosjean did not drive on the same line or at the same speed as previous laps," double World Champion Häkkinen told Finnish newspaper Ilta-Sanomat. |
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29 May 2015, 07:20 (Ref:3542412) | #148 | ||
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We've had that article already.
I took it into account when defending against the dramatic accusation of brake testing. BTW I don't think Max should be penalised. |
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29 May 2015, 09:52 (Ref:3542459) | #149 | |
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I think the crash is Max's fault. I think that's obvious and those who are arguing have an agenda, are blind, biased or simply trolling.
However, wasn't his crashing penalty enough? A bit of shame from crashing. An extremely heavy impact. Hes lucky to walk away. Is that not enough of a penalty for the kid. If he had have been injured would they still throw a penalty at him? This is racing, if you do something to intentionally ruin another drivers race you deserve a penalty. If it is a genuine mistake while trying to throw a legitimate move, let it play out for god sake. Grosjean managed to continue, so I think it should just be sorted out on track. |
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29 May 2015, 22:33 (Ref:3542695) | #150 | ||
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