IMSA DPi Discussion

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

It should be noted that under this Dallara can also update their sprint kit, something they initially weren't going to be allowed to do by the ACO.

And within context of this thread, it means that ESM and Cadillac will probably have to update their DPIs. This is due to an agreement between IMSA and the ACO that allows DPI teams to get the same updates as the ACO spec cars.

As well as the updates to the R/M Mk.30 - RT24-P.




L.P.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

No it is not. All P2s that run in IWSC are directly affected by this, as well as any part of 3 of the 4 DPis, that are not already altered via the DPi conversion .

ACO jokers. In more ways than one. That's all.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

As well as the updates to the R/M Mk.30 - RT24-P.




L.P.

Sort of already implied when we all know that Multimatic will be probably re-homologating the whole car at the end of the day because it's such junk.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by TF110

There's no other car running in the WEC besides Oreca's, and that's because it's the best package.

I didn't know a time machine was standard WEC team equipment.

Originally Posted by TF110

A monopoly on an equalized class is never good.

Good thing LMP2 wasn't an equalized class until two weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't think there is such a thing as a non BoP'd joker though?

Not anymore. When the joker started being brought up it was made to sound like one free upgrade for each four years. There's another provision in the regulations to allow a performance evolution at any time if the car is **** pending consultation with the other constructors. That's the one Ligier tried to use at Le Mans to save their "joker".

Inherently unless you're totally FUBAR like the Riley, a single upgrade to a homologated car is going to favour the constructors that are behind catching up because they have clear areas for improvement compared to the leader and more economic impetus to act on it (you don't have unlimited R&D budget for a cost capped customer program, remember). Especially considering the ORECA is already a very heavily developed car, this being the third iteration and fourth year for that base car.

[AoB Special Stage]

I counter with saying that it stills favors the team that started ahead because they only have one season (in this case, '18) before they can integrate whatever evolutions their rivals have created (as applicable to them) and then get back out front with all the constructors' jokers used.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

I didn't know a time machine was standard WEC team equipment.

You don't need a time machine to look at testing times. The Oreca was consistently the fastest during testing. It also was the only car you could upgrade from the previous generation. It wasn't a secret that the Oreca was faster than every other car.

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

I counter with saying that it stills favors the team that started ahead because they only have one season (in this case, '18) before they can integrate whatever evolutions their rivals have created (as applicable to them) and then get back out front with all the constructors' jokers used.

And what if the ACO does not permit you to use the joker?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

And what if the ACO does not permit you to use the joker?

You apply sandbagging.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

You apply sandbagging.

So you're going to get all of your customers (including people who are paying a lot of money to race and drive fast) to slow down, and by the same amount? And convince the ACO to ignore the times when you weren't sand bagging, and only count these times, which are slower than the old? I think they'll see through that.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

So you're going to get all of your customers (including people who are paying a lot of money to race and drive fast) to slow down, and by the same amount? And convince the ACO to ignore the times when you weren't sand bagging, and only count these times, which are slower than the old? I think they'll see through that.

Simple, just make sure the ACO gets the telemetry that proves your point and the rest can disappear. Like we we saw from their late change of heart regarding the sprint packages.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

Simple, just make sure the ACO gets the telemetry that proves your point and the rest can disappear. Like we we saw from their late change of heart regarding the sprint packages.

Provide them with telemetry? Like the kind of thing that would show sandbagging? They might seem through that too.

The Dallara sprint package was allowed an upgrade because the parts causing the stability issues were shared between the kits, and they could not solve the issue by changing one kit.

I know this isn't a popular decision, but the ACO does hold all the cards. They can be a terrible organisers, but it's their game and their rules to apply how they want. So trying to manipulate it like that doesn't really work.

[AoB Special Stage]

History shows that you can bend the rules into a pretzel until the ACO sees your way. Now, if no one minds, I'm going to go pack a suitcase into my fuel tank.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

History shows that you can bend the rules into a pretzel until the ACO sees your way. Now, if no one minds, I'm going to go pack a suitcase into my fuel tank.

Well I am sure IMSA and the DPi mfgs. in the IWSC would have something to say about that. As it would unsettle IMSA's highly tuned performance envelope.






L.P.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Well I am sure IMSA and the DPi mfgs. in the IWSC would have something to say about that. As it would unsettle IMSA's highly tuned performance envelope.

I hear you and I agree, but I suppose the matter of how much the ACO cares is the relevant one. They have an incredibly love-hate relationship lately.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

History shows that you can bend the rules into a pretzel until the ACO sees your way. Now, if no one minds, I'm going to go pack a suitcase into my fuel tank.

Generally the ACO history goes along the lines of "French? You can maybe ignore some rules."

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

So you're going to get all of your customers (including people who are paying a lot of money to race and drive fast) to slow down, and by the same amount? And convince the ACO to ignore the times when you weren't sand bagging, and only count these times, which are slower than the old? I think they'll see through that.

Well said. The Caddies managed to do it because there were only three cars spread across two teams, and GM was directly involved. No way you're getting the massive number of paying customers Oreca has to all sandbag at once.

Even if such an effort could trick the ACO, it would only take ONE team deciding not to go along with it to kill the effort.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

------, but I suppose the matter of how much the ACO cares is the relevant one. They have an incredibly love-hate relationship lately.

How so? This is a thread on IMSA's DPI. The current subject is how the 'Joker' effects them, as well as their P class brethren P-2s, in IMSA's IWSC P class.






L.P.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

How so? This is a thread on IMSA's DPI. The current subject is how the 'Joker' effects them, as well as their P class brethren P-2s, in IMSA's IWSC P class.

In the grand scheme, how much do the DPi/2 cars give back to ACO as compared to the rest of the global LMP2 scheme?

That's what I'm getting at, as far as allowing the jokers are concerned.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Well said. The Caddies managed to do it because there were only three cars spread across two teams, and GM was directly involved. No way you're getting the massive number of paying customers Oreca has to all sandbag at once.

Even if such an effort could trick the ACO, it would only take ONE team deciding not to go along with it to kill the effort.

Actually GM had a direct involment only for WTR, and there are more than 3 cadillac dpi around. 5 at least, this year AXR fielded three cars after the #31 long beach crash.

Anyway sell chassis and spare parts to private teams is the main business for companies like oreca and onroak. GM uses racing to promote their brands. That's why to me will be very tricky for other teams to put their hands on a cadillac dpi..... even for SoD.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Actually GM had a direct involment only for WTR, and there are more than 3 cadillac dpi around. 5 at least, this year AXR fielded three cars after the #31 long beach crash.

WTR was the proper factory team, but AXR got a fair bit of influence and assistance from GM(GM reps were all over AXR's paddock space at almost every race).

As for the number of Cadillacs, I was referring specifically to cars on track, as that's where everything matters on the issue that was being referred to. I am well aware of the existence of the spare cars, but they were irrelevant to the point.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

WTR was the proper factory team, but AXR got a fair bit of influence and assistance from GM(GM reps were all over AXR's paddock space at almost every race).

As for the number of Cadillacs, I was referring specifically to cars on track, as that's where everything matters on the issue that was being referred to. I am well aware of the existence of the spare cars, but they were irrelevant to the point.

They are not because 1 or 2 years old spare cars could be sold to other teams.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by canaglia

They are not because 1 or 2 years old spare cars could be sold to other teams.

That does not make them relevant to the point being made.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Actually GM had a direct involment only for WTR, and there are more than 3 cadillac dpi around. 5 at least, this year AXR fielded three cars after the #31 long beach crash.

Anyway sell chassis and spare parts to private teams is the main business for companies like oreca and onroak. GM uses racing to promote their brands. That's why to me will be very tricky for other teams to put their hands on a cadillac dpi..... even for SoD.

One reason the Caddilac is not available is that the Dallara is not available for purchase until it receives its upgrade.

[Coach Ep]

[cough, cough....]

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/14511...ch-to-cadillac

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

[cough, cough....]

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/14511...ch-to-cadillac

I'm sure they're weighing all options so to say the Cadillac is available because MP has changed his story again is about as accurate as they are weighing running a Riley again too.

[AoB Special Stage]

But this allows to present this point: Is it better to have a naturally better car or is it more important to be the best team using a specific car?