The Indian Grand Prix

[Bononi]

Well, if it's poverty logically it reflects poorly on sport, poverty=poor.

What do you want ? That we all accept your "views and beliefs" and make a petition to shut down the Indian GP and all others that don't fit in your concept of perfection ?

Come on then, take the first step, do something !

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Appalling or not, in the context of Formula 1 it has absolutely nothing to do with whether a race is undertaken or not. Ask me what my feelings are about rape/terrorism or any of the other nastiness in the world and I'll tell you.

But that is neither the context or the purpose of the thread. The question posed was in summary, "should the Indian GP go ahead because, in the OP's opinion the recent rape and the generally polluted atmosphere, should mean it is cancelled."

I don't think any of those things matter when discussing a Formula 1 race, the Commonwealth Games or any other sporting event. (World Cup in Qatar anyone?). The only thing that really matters is; are the facilities there; are the necessary safety precautions in place; and can the teams/participants get there?

If people want to link the national death toll from smoking, the road traffic state, or the fact that you are virtually guaranteed to get Delhi Belly then by all means link it to a reason not to go. I wouldn't.

Kudos for IMHO a more sensible defense of the Indian GP.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Beetle

I think I am a fairly well-educated human being for my age. I generally hold firm in my beliefs and I find it unbelievable that this thread was taken to such a personal level as an attack against my age, intelligence, or knowledge (or at least that's how I perceived it, I should add). My opinion - age allows people to become set in their ways and not open to change or ideas that point in a different direction.

I don't know your age (or really care much), but beware of how you fight that battle. You complain that you are treated badly and that your age (assuming you are young) is a count against you... and then you turn right around and paint those who are older with a broad brush of being stuck in their ways. You can't have it both ways!

Richard

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Well, if it's poverty logically it reflects poorly on sport, poverty=poor.

What do you want ? That we all accept your "views and beliefs" and make a petition to shut down the Indian GP and all others that don't fit in your concept of perfection ?

Come on then, take the first step, do something !

I'm sorry I started this thread in the first place. I have a feeling this is just going to get worse. I know I haven't made any friends by arguing this point, but there it is. I'm sorry, but's impossible to not take things personally when you can't see the person on the other side of the screen.

In the bold, you're missing some key words. If poverty is around sport, it reflects poorly on that sport. Quite a few of my soccer friends are hesitant to head out to the World Cup in Brazil because of the unrest regarding drugs, violence, etc. I would love to go and am planning on it, but I have been advised not to. Plus, just driving up to COTA in Austin you pass long-abandoned shacks with trash stuck in the rickety barbed-wire fences. Tell me that doesn't reflect poorly on the race. I know I was SHOCKED at the antithesis of the surrounding residential area compared to the sleek, clean, ultra-modern COTA.

Bononi: What do I want? Well, that's not your business, is it?

Honestly, what I wanted was to see if anyone on this forum agreed that the Indian GP should be shut down for a variety of reasons. I guess not, so as this thread seems to now be a stew of high emotions, antsiness for overly-long days at the office, and a whole lot of hypocrisy and contradicting oneselves, I suggest we shut down this thread. Mods, you have my approval to close thy thread!!!!

[JeremySmith]

Well I am not sure what you are talking about as far as COTA is concerned ? it's what happens when wooden farm and tractor sheds get old!

I have driven 183 South and 71 West for years and see nothing wrong with it...You don't build airports and race tracks on prime downtown real estate, the land alone would cost a fortune..

Apart from the fact that there isn't any available..

[FordCosworthPanoz]

This is a bit what the area around COTA looks like:

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Beetle

Plus, just driving up to COTA in Austin you pass long-abandoned shacks with trash stuck in the rickety barbed-wire fences. Tell me that doesn't reflect poorly on the race. I know I was SHOCKED at the antithesis of the surrounding residential area compared to the sleek, clean, ultra-modern COTA.

i think you just nailed it right there. the problems you are talking about, inequality, pollution, poverty etc exist every where.

now if i was to ask you what makes you feel worse, poverty in the US (or any western nation for that matter) where we know better, have laws aimed at preventing it, and have the resources to actually alleviate it but dont or is it worse in a country struggling through one of the more difficult periods of rapid industrialization?

to add another wrinkle these problems are actually getting better in places like India (well maybe not the pollution) while poverty is a growing problem here. they have better economic growth rates so theres is a society thats improving while ours is stagnating even regressing. is it then not fair to say our societies are the ones that are crumbling and maybe us who dont deserve our races?

anyways you are making good points and that will win people over in the end but if you really want to change our minds you need to make the connection between the ills of the world and what that has to do with F1.

some of us do think sport can be vehicle for social change (we have seen it happen before) which means things like having an Indian women as a team principle is something they need to see.

[JeremySmith]

I think that MK is a team principal because she is really good at what she does..

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think that MK is a team principal because she is really good at what she does..

oh i agree but that also makes her a good role model for women in India and helps to advance the cause of equality. sorry if that came out otherwise.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

This is a bit what the area around COTA looks like:

Where is that ! it looks cool...

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

oh i agree but that also makes her a good role model for women in India and helps to advance the cause of equality. sorry if that came out otherwise.

Yes I think it makes her a good role model for women everywhere..

[Paradise City]

I think people can 'overthink' these things. India is a worthy place to visit but its no small task. Do your preparation and go with an entourage. You'll have an experience you'll remember for the rest of your life.

India is developing and slowly learning. It's a tough country though and development is not going to happen over-night. Engaging with them is the best way to keep them on a positive path, shunning them will keep things difficult there - for longer.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Beetle

I'm sorry I started this thread in the first place. I have a feeling this is just going to get worse. I know I haven't made any friends by arguing this point, but there it is. I'm sorry, but's impossible to not take things personally when you can't see the person on the other side of the screen.

Like I said, you want us to accept it and nothing else, this is not a discussion as long as you're not open to someone else opinion.

Originally Posted by Beetle

Bononi: What do I want? Well, that's not your business, is it?

Yes, since you're posting in the F1 Forum. So...

Originally Posted by Beetle

Honestly, what I wanted was to see if anyone on this forum agreed that the Indian GP should be shut down for a variety of reasons. I guess not, so as this thread seems to now be a stew of high emotions, antsiness for overly-long days at the office, and a whole lot of hypocrisy and contradicting oneselves, I suggest we shut down this thread. Mods, you have my approval to close thy thread!!!!

You guessed it right, and you're learning something !
And WE don't need your approval.

[garcon]

Thread NOT closed.