Is F1 rigged?

[FAS33]

as much as I like Sebastien Vettel and Team Redbull he said something interesting during the race last weekend, he was behind Webber for a couple laps then as he caught up, thru the radio he said ''Mark is too slow, Get him out of the way. He is too slow." we know Vettels a quick driver but why did he ask the team to pass his teammate? what happened to just passing your team mate like they're just another driver on the grid, I thought this was a car race, not one ruled by the team principles.

as for the Mercedes team Rosberg caught up to Hamilton near the end of the race, why was he told by Brawn to keep behind him? Hamilton said on the podium that Nico was supposed to be there in his place, guess the boss had other ideas. It doesn't paint a good picture from where its been and any new fans to F1 would think that this series is a joke with all these controversess. but any publicity is good publicity right?

[GT6]

Originally Posted by FAS33

as much as I like Sebastien Vettel and Team Redbull he said something interesting during the race last weekend, he was behind Webber for a couple laps then as he caught up, thru the radio he said ''Mark is too slow, Get him out of the way. He is too slow." we know Vettels a quick driver but why did he ask the team to pass his teammate? what happened to just passing your team mate like they're just another driver on the grid, I thought this was a car race, not one ruled by the team principles.

as for the Mercedes team Rosberg caught up to Hamilton near the end of the race, why was he told by Brawn to keep behind him? Hamilton said on the podium that Nico was supposed to be there in his place, guess the boss had other ideas. It doesn't paint a good picture from where its been and any new fans to F1 would think that this series is a joke with all these controversess. but any publicity is good publicity right?

I suggest you read all the other comments on this forum

[Knowlesy]

Searing opinion piece, compelling and rich.

[Bononi]

Are we talking about the same thing in many different threads ?

[garcon]

I believe we are...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by FAS33

as much as I like Sebastien Vettel and Team Redbull he said something interesting during the race last weekend, he was behind Webber for a couple laps then as he caught up, thru the radio he said ''Mark is too slow, Get him out of the way. He is too slow." we know Vettels a quick driver but why did he ask the team to pass his teammate? what happened to just passing your team mate like they're just another driver on the grid, I thought this was a car race, not one ruled by the team principles.

as for the Mercedes team Rosberg caught up to Hamilton near the end of the race, why was he told by Brawn to keep behind him? Hamilton said on the podium that Nico was supposed to be there in his place, guess the boss had other ideas. It doesn't paint a good picture from where its been and any new fans to F1 would think that this series is a joke with all these controversess. but any publicity is good publicity right?

If you can think of the team as being all of its shareholders, then yes, for them it is absolutely more important that the drivers don't take each other of during the race. Adrian Newey is seen holding his head in his hands. Is he worried that the racing just isn't good enough, or his he worried that the team may lose out on millions of dollars of payments from FOM?

I keep hearing that it's for the 'team' that this is done. But why is it done for the team? I mean, who really gives a toss about a soft drinks company winning an F1 championship? Surely the drivers championship is the one that most fans can relate to?

And yes, this is going on elsewhere.

[alan1302]

Team orders have been in F1 since F1 started so what's the problem?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by alan1302

Team orders have been in F1 since F1 started so what's the problem?

The problem seems to be that modern day F1 drivers don't particularly like to move over for team mates they consider to be slower than themselves.

[Bononi]

Do you mean Vettel ?

[Bononi]

Do you mean Vettel ?

[bjohnsonsmith]

There's been and more than likely still is match fixing in Football, match fixing in Cricket, allegations of horse races being fixed. Boxing is and always has had a very shady side to it, so why not F1? Where there's large sums of money involved corruption's not far behind.

[csirl]

Rigging may be too strong a language. But the way F1 is currently structured, particularly from a financial point of view, has loaded the dice in favour of some. While individual races may not be rigged, the lack of a level playing field makes it difficult for some to be successful.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by csirl

Rigging may be too strong a language. But the way F1 is currently structured, particularly from a financial point of view, has loaded the dice in favour of some. While individual races may not be rigged, the lack of a level playing field makes it difficult for some to be successful.

Why is rigging too strong? It's happened and is happening in other sports. I don't see F1 being exempt.

[IceMan_PJN]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Is F1 rigged?

as much as I like Sebastien Vettel and Team Redbull he said something interesting during the race last weekend, he was behind Webber for a couple laps then as he caught up, thru the radio he said ''Mark is too slow, Get him out of the way. He is too slow." we know Vettels a quick driver but why did he ask the team to pass his teammate? what happened to just passing your team mate like they're just another driver on the grid, I thought this was a car race, not one ruled by the team principles.

as for the Mercedes team Rosberg caught up to Hamilton near the end of the race, why was he told by Brawn to keep behind him? Hamilton said on the podium that Nico was supposed to be there in his place, guess the boss had other ideas. It doesn't paint a good picture from where its been and any new fans to F1 would think that this series is a joke with all these controversess. but any publicity is good publicity right?

It isn't "rigged." Nobody determines the outcome of a race in advance. It's just team orders, wherewith team management aims for what is perceived as best for the team, when in situations with which orders would matter. Obviously, if McLaren wants Button to finish ahead of Perez, orders won't matter if Perez is running ninth and Button fourteenth, but if they were together on the track they could step in and order Perez to let Button by, if they felt that best. As has been mentioned, this is not new to F1, as it has always been there.

[Peat]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Searing opinion piece, compelling and rich.

One thousand and one, one thousand and two. Oh, i didn't see you there. I don't know if you heard, but i did over a thousand.

[garcon]

Depressingly, it probably needs clarifying for the hard of thinking that match/race fixing and result rigging are very different things to the legitimate use of team orders.

[FAS33]

team orders, rigging results are pretty much the same thing don't you think. why then did Hamilton say after the race that his teamate deserved his podium spot? team orders are boring.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by garcon

Depressingly, it probably needs clarifying for the hard of thinking that match/race fixing and result rigging are very different things to the legitimate use of team orders.

The difference is that one is covert and illegal, the other is overt and legal. The outcome is the same however.

[luke g28]

The outcome is not the same.

The closest I can think of that F1 has got to race rigging in recent times is the piquet / alonso incident. This was not seen as being team orders or anywhere near acceptable and people lost their jobs over it.

Team orders allows one team to swap their drivers position on track to improve their overall strategy, no point one driver following another for 20 laps and losing time to the leaders, particularly if say one driver is on a 2 stop and the other on a 3 stop.

The most common visible use of team orders is when a team is running a 1-2 and they chose to swap the position of their cars. This will often be done in the last 10-20 laps of the race and will have little impact on the race overall. Both drivers have got to that position on merit.

Race rigging could see all of the other drivers slowing down and waiting for the predetermined winner to catch up after having a puncture on track.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by luke g28

The outcome is not the same.

The closest I can think of that F1 has got to race rigging in recent times is the piquet / alonso incident. This was not seen as being team orders or anywhere near acceptable and people lost their jobs over it.

Team orders allows one team to swap their drivers position on track to improve their overall strategy, no point one driver following another for 20 laps and losing time to the leaders, particularly if say one driver is on a 2 stop and the other on a 3 stop.

The most common visible use of team orders is when a team is running a 1-2 and they chose to swap the position of their cars. This will often be done in the last 10-20 laps of the race and will have little impact on the race overall. Both drivers have got to that position on merit.

Race rigging could see all of the other drivers slowing down and waiting for the predetermined winner to catch up after having a puncture on track.

There are many ways to rig a race. You're citing some of the illegal ones here. Team orders happen to be a legal form of race rigging. They fix the outcome of the part of the race they affect... there's is no getting away from that fact.

[Knowlesy]

Dear oh dear.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by luke g28

The outcome is not the same.

The closest I can think of that F1 has got to race rigging in recent times is the piquet / alonso incident. This was not seen as being team orders or anywhere near acceptable and people lost their jobs over it.

Team orders allows one team to swap their drivers position on track to improve their overall strategy, no point one driver following another for 20 laps and losing time to the leaders, particularly if say one driver is on a 2 stop and the other on a 3 stop.

The most common visible use of team orders is when a team is running a 1-2 and they chose to swap the position of their cars. This will often be done in the last 10-20 laps of the race and will have little impact on the race overall. Both drivers have got to that position on merit.

Race rigging could see all of the other drivers slowing down and waiting for the predetermined winner to catch up after having a puncture on track.

To play Devil's Advocate a bit, there was too big a disparity in the punishment between Piquet crashing for Alonso and anyone slowing down for anyone else when team orders were banned. Although Alonso got away with it both times.

[Paradise City]

I would've described rigged as a clandestine and illegal activity

Make (a sailing ship or boat) ready for sailing by providing it with sails and rigging.
Manage or conduct (something) fraudulently so as to produce an advantageous result.

If "rigging" is something that can be legal then track designers have "rigged" the tracks so the cars must go along a particular trajectory.

I want these guys to be as honest as possible and I don't like someone trying to hoodwink me with a 'nod, nod, wink' and pretending some mechanical problem where none exists, so yes, keep 'team orders' legal. It's there in most motorsports I watch anyway so I'm accustomed to it even if it is a necessary evil. F1 is still highly competitive with them.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by FAS33

team orders, rigging results are pretty much the same thing don't you think.

No I don't.

[Bononi]

So hiding the loo paper so your team mate won't be able to return to his car and make a better time in qualifying is rigging the race ???

God, Piquet you little devil.