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Old 23 Sep 2016, 17:55 (Ref:3674578)   #26
leonidas
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leonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridleonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't think an increase in speed or power will necessarily improve the WRC spectacle. Historic classes go at half the speed and are often twice as exciting to watch.

They need to work on suspension regs - allowing for durability of course but making suspension behaviour closer to that of a good production car. That may also bring down cost.

They also need regs that encourage different shapes of cars - during Group B every model looked different, with outrageous bodykits and styling. Now everything goes through the same windtunnel and is essentially the same shopping trolley with bigger wheelarches. Not so much fun...
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Old 23 Sep 2016, 19:47 (Ref:3674606)   #27
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Having cars with different shapes would be a lot more exciting. With the faster regulation next year I thought they would have longer cars to make them more stable, guessed wrong though. In rallycross too it's getting a little boring with hatchbacks.
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Old 24 Sep 2016, 21:46 (Ref:3674816)   #28
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Just make them all MK2 escorts. Who doesn't love those.
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 06:35 (Ref:3674879)   #29
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Just make them all MK2 escorts. Who doesn't love those.

I don't like them, but I am not from that era. But I do understand their appeal. Personally I like their wide wheel arches, but that's all. I also don't see the point of excessive oversteer in about every corner. I don't like E30's and E36's either.
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 10:53 (Ref:3674890)   #30
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Originally Posted by leonidas View Post
I don't think an increase in speed or power will necessarily improve the WRC spectacle. Historic classes go at half the speed and are often twice as exciting to watch.

They need to work on suspension regs - allowing for durability of course but making suspension behaviour closer to that of a good production car. That may also bring down cost.

They also need regs that encourage different shapes of cars - during Group B every model looked different, with outrageous bodykits and styling. Now everything goes through the same windtunnel and is essentially the same shopping trolley with bigger wheelarches. Not so much fun...
I'll be amazed if it does improve the spectacle. Who asked for new regs, with more powerful cars? The current cars are more than fast enough - any faster and the speeds & stage times could be scary....Rallying doesn't need a repeat of GpB or it could be finished.

It's really more of the same; just a slight evolution, when what was needed was a revolution, something completely different from what we've had before.

350-370 BHP, minus the front driveshafts, limit suspension travel, harder tyre compounds, etc Just try something different...for once. Simpler, cheaper cars is what the sport needs.

But it's not just the cars; the events are pretty anaemic; 2 and a bit days and barely 200 miles of stages. That's WRC-lite.....

It's no coincidence that in the last 15-20 years WRC has lost its mojo due to events being almost identikit, very few night stages, lack of competition, etc
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 12:25 (Ref:3674920)   #31
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350-370 BHP, minus the front driveshafts, limit suspension travel, harder tyre compounds, etc Just try something different...for once. Simpler, cheaper cars is what the sport needs.

Why rear wheel drive? All rally cars are based around front wheel drive cars. Renault, Peugeot and Citroën have proved these cars could be capable rally cars. Would make it closer to a road car. Perhaps the should ditch the ALS too, that would limit turbosize in a natural way (lag).
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 14:57 (Ref:3675005)   #32
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Well why not RWD? They need to try something different. The cars are based on FWD, yet run 4WD.....And the cars have very little in common with the road models, so may as well go to a different drive train.

As I've said already, they just keep repeating the same mistakes...with the same results. And keep wondering why things don't work.
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 16:51 (Ref:3675090)   #33
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WRC is a tricky fix to cure.

To bring back the variety in events would make the series far more expensive. If you have a Safari you have to build a car to take that punishment, it doesn't exist anywhere else. It got to the point eventually that early WRC spec cars could compete in Safari, but it was half the event then that it was even in the early 90's

Cars are tricky to fix. They all sound similar, they look similar yes, and they do slide, its a fallacy to suggest they don't, it is just very controlled. The Loeb and Solberg era was the worst for sliding and neutral handling, that is what took WRC to where it is now. They dont sound vicious like GpB, they dont make you stand back in awe even though they are astonishingly fast still. I dont really know why, as they should!

Bringing it back is an almost impossible task, because largely of WRX, which as a series in many ways is utterly flawed but is clawing back people of a newer generation and all sorts of easily pleased fans to rally type racing and events that have drifted away.

The cars though nothing like as spectacular as GpB to listen or watch are driven to and over a limit much like modern WRC cars, they smash into each other on tracks designed to encourage that, which apparently is great, and a huge big budget media company is pushing it with more weight than probably any other series right now on social media, networking hard within the sport and on tv.

WRC needs to re-invent itself somehow and has done for years. The glory days are gone, and the only way you get tham back is to make events longer and go all over theri host country, and make it free for fans while making it safe. Local rallying has become almost non spectatr due to fatalities i the UK so it will eventually die here too.

A pretty much impossible task.

I was lucky I saw the GpB cars and the alost as good GpA driver era.

The modern generation has had one driver domination for 15 years, no shock it has fallen off a cliff
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 18:35 (Ref:3675103)   #34
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It is slightly odd that no-one not called Sébastien has won the championship since 2003.
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 19:16 (Ref:3675113)   #35
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I enjoy the show ATM and the new rules of next year should be a good one and only one more thing I would like to see is a great more long distance rallies in a variety of different types of rally in the world
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Old 5 Oct 2016, 18:24 (Ref:3677589)   #36
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I don't like them, but I am not from that era. But I do understand their appeal. Personally I like their wide wheel arches, but that's all. I also don't see the point of excessive oversteer in about every corner. I don't like E30's and E36's either.
" excessive oversteer" ? Impossible. No rally car has ever epitomised the sheer spectacle of fast driving on the loose than a Mk 2 Escort. And few rally cars have ever sounded better either.Only ones I can think of are 6R4, Stratos and Quattro.


I know some flat as a fart sounding current WRC never gets more than even slightly out of shape but goes quicker - so what ? Your holiday jet is faster than a Spitfire and your Fiesta ST is quicker than a T35 but when spectacle is involved....no contest .
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Old 5 Oct 2016, 18:43 (Ref:3677592)   #37
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" excessive oversteer" ? Impossible. No rally car has ever epitomised the sheer spectacle of fast driving on the loose than a Mk 2 Escort. And few rally cars have ever sounded better either.Only ones I can think of are 6R4, Stratos and Quattro.


I know some flat as a fart sounding current WRC never gets more than even slightly out of shape but goes quicker - so what ? Your holiday jet is faster than a Spitfire and your Fiesta ST is quicker than a T35 but when spectacle is involved....no contest .


Each on their own, but I prefer the Group B and Rallycross Division 1 stuff... so you take the Escort Mk2, I'll take the RS 200, Sierra RS Cosworth, Escort RS Cosworth or RX Focus... Although I understand the current and coming breed of WRC are just to clinical and over the top shaped...
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 08:48 (Ref:3677772)   #38
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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I was lucky I saw the GpB cars and the alost as good GpA driver era.
I'm probably biased as it's the WRC I grew up with, but considering the sport as a whole, Group A is my favourite era.

It's hard to think of a more iconic image of rallying then a sideways Escort and it's a sight I'm sure I'll never tire of seeing but, in comparable specification, 4WD will invariably be faster and that's personally what I want to see the sport stick with.

I do agree with the comments that more power isn't the only way to make the modern cars more spectacular. As for the sound of the modern cars, I agree a lot of them do sound similar, but I daresay there have been a few exceptions. I always thought the Impreza S12b WRC sounded good and the Countryman WRC is great (which is handy, as the sound detracts from the fact it looks like a brick!).

They have promised more engine noise from the 2017 cars, so I'm looking forward to hearing what they sound like on stage.
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Old 6 Oct 2016, 11:23 (Ref:3677800)   #39
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Group A wasn't that less spectacular than the Group B cars, and it was easier for manufacturers to get involved without getting silly
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Old 8 Oct 2016, 10:34 (Ref:3678380)   #40
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Gp A was perfectly fine - and saw plenty of Manufacturers coming to play. There wasn't a lot wrong with the sport at that time, bar a few tweaks.
Sadly, 1997 saw the start of the WRCar formula - and soon the biggest change; the 'cloverleaf' event format. Personally, that is the biggest error the FiA made regards to the WRC - and I'd argue, it has never recovered from.
10-16 identikit events instead of the varies events previously. 9-5 rallying, no/few night stages, small geographical area, etc
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Old 9 Oct 2016, 16:26 (Ref:3678687)   #41
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Yes it was pretty much ruined by the fact it became sterilised by the early 00s, with them all being sprint events, with hardly any variety. And yes night stages used to be part of the fun, especially at places like Monte Carlo and the RAC
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Old 9 Oct 2016, 17:36 (Ref:3678701)   #42
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Starfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridStarfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridStarfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Standardization is killing the WRC, each event should have its own personality. I prefer to have less events but longer and more complex. I always have the feeling that WRC rally need one day more. Montecarlo should have the Turini night and the cars entering Monaco at dawn.

And please, if the Safari and Ivory Coast because of security cannot be back, look for a substitute somewhere. Brazil, Indonesia, India, Peru...

I disagree with the Group A formula, group A required the manufacturer to build a production 4x4 turbo car like the Evo or the Escort Cosworth. Those cars are difficult to sale and in many cases were sold at loss. WRC formula meant that any manufacturer can build a racecar without needing to have production racecar as a base. Opel and Nissan had miseries in the 90s because the regulations didn´t allow them to evolve the Sunny and the Calibra.

Group A and B regulations were very close, the difference was the number of road cars to be homologated. In Group B the number was low ( 250 ? ) and in Group A it was bigger ( 2500 ? ).
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Old 9 Oct 2016, 18:35 (Ref:3678705)   #43
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Gp A cars were not difficult to sell at all, Ford, Lancia and Mitsubishi sold their cars by the boatload as did Toyota.

What was the problem was trying to get all the tech you wanted into such a large productions run, not big enough to fully use a line, but not small enough to make one off specials.

The rules were perfect, which is why you had so many big manufacturers involved and mainly the Japanese who came in strongly.

it was ruined by WRC rules that allowed silly cars like the Hyundai Accent (only car from dealers was a 1.6 ffs) the 206 that was wildly unhomologated in reality! But it was great for a while until the recession hit and Citroen came in and outspent everyone like they later did in WTCC.

Group B rules were spot on for manufacturers, it just needed policing far better
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Old 9 Oct 2016, 20:47 (Ref:3678732)   #44
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As ever, the WRC never learns from its mistakes, and quite often repeats them - and never admits mistakes have been made. Which is why its in the position it is.

Next years 'new improved cars' aren't going to bring back the glory days - anybody who thinks that is living in cloud cuckoo land.
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Old 9 Oct 2016, 22:02 (Ref:3678765)   #45
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Some awful news today as i go to bed, a fan has beeen killed at Rally Classic in Italy, a proper old style event where drivers are encouraged to show off and fans line the road a little old school to get close.

Seems a car went off and injured a few but sadly killed one fan.

I would love to go to this event and I hope it can continue. I do think if you have been watching it closely over the years it was a little out of hand in places, but its an awesome event.
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Old 9 Oct 2016, 22:12 (Ref:3678766)   #46
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I've seen plenty of coverage of this event over the year - and slightly alarmed at some of the 'spectator areas'. I've often thought it would be great if we in the UK could have something similar to Rally Legend....but not likely, especially as the Roger Albert Historic was cancelled, and plans to run every other year.

I think the time has come when organisers will have to provide 'spectator only' areas - and everywhere else is prohibited.
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Old 10 Oct 2016, 07:08 (Ref:3678847)   #47
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I think that is the appeal of this event and why it has become so popular, much like the Boucles de Spa in Belgium, it has the open road feel of an older event.

But these are Italians, if left to their own devices a bit like the Portugese and Spanish they will push and push until someone gets hurt. It was a F2 Clio that went into a crowd I think, but if you watch the coverage, the drivers are really playing, not many are driving flat out or going for times.

We had an event like this for a few years the Roger Clark rally, but most of the cars are in Europe and sending them over here is very expensive, plus the drives probably like driving in the warm sun!. And at the time of year you would have the event to coincide with old RAC weather its probably quite tough to tempt the rich owners to England.

But, I will say in typical Brit fashion we ran our event as a proper rally, Rally CLassic, Eifel and Boucles are certainly far more like events than rallies, so perhaps that is why we didn't get the same range of cars. We certainly didn't get hordes of GpB cars like they do for those events

But I think the climate and weather helps those events more than anything, we got good drivers like Stig, Hannu and Vatanen.
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