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28 Apr 2006, 05:56 (Ref:1596696) | #1 | |
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Power Loss At Universal Joint
Due to firewall,transmission tunnel etc. constraints [laziness?] I have about a 5 degrees angle [off a straight line]at the front uni in a rwd live rear axle sedan with engine swap. Am I losing much power--is it worth chasing ??
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28 Apr 2006, 06:57 (Ref:1596712) | #2 | ||
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no you will hardly loose anything, infact u/j s should not run perfectly in line or they wear permaturely
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AKA Guru its not speed thats dangerous, just the sudden lack of it! |
28 Apr 2006, 12:19 (Ref:1596884) | #3 | ||
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28 Apr 2006, 13:31 (Ref:1596950) | #4 | |
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On the subject of losses is there any equation to calculate the losses of power when angling driveshafts which use tripod joints?
Is it to much of a worry compared to CofG reduction. This is in the case of a single seater |
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30 Apr 2006, 01:44 (Ref:1597873) | #5 | ||
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Power losses due to taking a round about way to the road will surprise you. the most efficient is is the common chain driven motorcycle because the engine rotating in tandem with driven wheel, same for the Morris 750 with transverse engine. An average car ft engine rear wheel drive will suffer about a 40% loss. The same set up on a buss with an extra long drive shaft will be closer to 60%. DON'T BELIEVE IT? prove it to yourself: take an impact wrench or a torque wrench set at say a 40 ft pound setting and tighten a lug nut, then with a torque wrench, see haw much is required to remove it. then do the same with longer extension, the add a U-joint, then another extension and hold it at an angle. You will be amazed at the difference.
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"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde. |
30 Apr 2006, 08:20 (Ref:1597990) | #6 | ||
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yes norman i see what your saying but the question was about a slight 5degree angle (which is how they are designed to run), your compairing a short direct straight drive without a U/J to one with a much longer drive with a u/j, not to mention the u/j s in a socket set arn't designed to be free running not being on needle rollers
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AKA Guru its not speed thats dangerous, just the sudden lack of it! |
30 Apr 2006, 14:38 (Ref:1598160) | #7 | |||
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True, even so it's a item that is often missed. BTW are they using any aluminum or carbon fiber drive shafts over there? |
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30 Apr 2006, 15:54 (Ref:1598195) | #8 | ||
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steel mainly!
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AKA Guru its not speed thats dangerous, just the sudden lack of it! |
1 May 2006, 04:38 (Ref:1598492) | #9 | ||
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Oh! thats terrible! I feel so sorry for you. My Aunt has one on her car and she doesn't drive any more. Would you accept a gift?
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"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde. |
1 May 2006, 05:56 (Ref:1598512) | #10 | ||
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1 May 2006, 13:07 (Ref:1598747) | #11 | ||||
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"Ah," said Dirk "it is a rare mind indeed that can render the hitherto non-existent blindingly obvious." |
1 May 2006, 14:48 (Ref:1598789) | #12 | ||
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I drew my own conclusions using one of the first dynos in So Cal (no scientific method), autos used were American w/auto trans judged against "factory HP claims" at the time. (mid to late 50s) The factory HP claims in those days were a bit fancifull.... Please forgive me.
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"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde. |
1 May 2006, 14:54 (Ref:1598793) | #13 | |||
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Yes Johnny, shes riding a Harley now, dressed in black from helmet to boots |
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"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde. |
1 May 2006, 20:17 (Ref:1598967) | #14 | |||
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1 May 2006, 21:46 (Ref:1599008) | #15 | ||
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my car looses about 18% through the transmission despite the engine shoving 460bhp through it, the direct top gear probably saves some looses but then again 235 sticky slicks will increase the losses again
Last edited by graham bahr; 1 May 2006 at 21:49. |
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AKA Guru its not speed thats dangerous, just the sudden lack of it! |
2 May 2006, 01:33 (Ref:1599080) | #16 | ||
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2 May 2006, 02:54 (Ref:1599104) | #17 | |||
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I think the truth is somewhere in between Johnny, more power does create more heat and therefore more loss, but it is not a direct relationship.
In Grahams case the car is not going to simply double or halve its power, so working with a constant is accurate enough. I am sure some smart people would be able to work it out properly. After all you can't create or destroy energy, so if you know the imputs you could work out all the outputs. Quote:
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2 May 2006, 18:52 (Ref:1599555) | #18 | ||
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I ran tripode inner and outer joints on my black-bird powered 750-F4 single seater, one of the shafts was at 12 degrees.......it made 145bhp at the wheels (as expected) and went like a missile down the straights......it aint worth worrying about......you do actually need a few degrees to promote internal lubrication and even wear, as being perfactly straight can actually weld themselves together, and hammer away at only one area.......5 degrees is no prob......its a 2 tenths of not a lot syndrome
Last edited by dtype38; 3 May 2006 at 15:12. Reason: Autocensor evasion |
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