Ford Mustang

[BSchneiderFan]

One of the motoring journals - it may have been Autocar - reported that Ford has homologated the new Mustang for the ALMS and the FIA GT Championship. Does anyone know if it will run as a GTS/GT car or a GT/N-GT? Also, apparently the 5-litre V8 is available as a separate unit for (if I recall correctly) about $10,000. One for Mr Northcutt?

[cybersdorf]

With a 5l V8, it would have to run in FIA-GT (as opposed to N-GT) where it would not stand a chance.

[BSchneiderFan]

But it could run in the GT class of the ALMS and at Le Mans, no? After all, the Callaway had an engine larger than 5 litres and was eligible.

[paul-collins]

Cy, why not FIA-GT? They have restrictor sizes listed for engines up to 8L for N-GT...

[BSchneiderFan]

Yes, that's what I thought, too. Aren't Mosler trying to homologate the MT900R for N-GT? And it has an engine way bigger than 5 litres.

[slicktsax]

yeah the engine in the mosler is 5.7 liters it's the corvette LS6 5.7 gen 3 V8

[gttouring]

the new 5.0litre Ford engine is very potent
in the Mustang GTR it is mildly set at 440HP and Torque, but in the concept F100 it was pushing 550 HP and 500 Torque so it is a capable and possible entry, the Mustang chassis of 04 my not be ideal , but it is possible perhaps with the new Mustang it might be a GT challenger. it certainly looks the paart..

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by paul-collins
Cy, why not FIA-GT? They have restrictor sizes listed for engines up to 8L for N-GT...

Yes, my mistake. I got the old and new regulations mixed up (it used to be max. 4000cc for N-GT).

[BSchneiderFan]

The V8 might be of interest to prototype teams, then, if it can push out more than 500 bhp when tuned. Or is it a derivative of the Ford V8 already available to customers?

[noise boy 2]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
The V8 might be of interest to prototype teams, then, if it can push out more than 500 bhp when tuned. Or is it a derivative of the Ford V8 already available to customers?

It's the same 4.6 modular engine that is in the current and next generation mustang (05) as well as the crown vic and many other ford cars & trucks. DOHC engine, and a massive one at that, I don't know if it would be desirable for a race engine due to the high CG of the design. Robert

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by noise boy 2
It's the same 4.6 modular engine that is in the current and next generation mustang (05) as well as the crown vic and many other ford cars & trucks. DOHC engine, and a massive one at that, I don't know if it would be desirable for a race engine due to the high CG of the design. Robert

This is quite true of that engine...the physical geometry of the modular V-8 is big indeed....

Isn't this the same engien that also goes into the production-based Panoz Esperanza???

I believe it is...

and GTTouring is correct...this high performance version of it has a boatload of horsepower and torque...

Which brings me to the next question...

What engine is in the Panoz car that will be competing in the ALMS GT class???

It would not surprise me if it is that same engine as well....

[weeks]

The V8 in the Mustang GTR is actually the Ford "Cammer" crate engine. Its the same one used in the Multimatic Focus DP.

Pictures and info HERE

If tuned properly this could become a very potent race engine.

[gttouring]

Changing the oil pan itself can reveal up to 40 extra horses, by controlling windage and all that oil drag, (Cobra R engineers found that by having a special pan made )
and it is seen in the Ford GT (it is a production Dry Sump with a Cast aluminum oil pan-production wow)
wo a 420 hp customer version of the 5L motor should be good for an extra few hundred horses at the right RPM and set up
the Panoz used to use the 4.6L ford V8 and i do believe the GT versions V8 is turbo and based on an Audi V8TT...

[Patrick B]

Not a very good price at $15,000. Mopar sells the V10 Viper engine for $16,000 and it has 100 more horsepower...

[Bob Riebe]

Sean Hyland Motorsports has released its, and probably Ford's as often nowadays factories simply stamp a part number on a someone elses block to save time, heavy duty modular cylinder block.
As far as I have read it will be a high-deck version as in it largest form with a 3.70 inch stroke it will reach 366 inches cubed.
It is interesting as the original modular blocks cast by Teksid in Italy (they also do work for Ferrari) weighed 85.40 lbs. and were safe for at least 900 horse power.(IN a book Sean put out on modular engines, he said he used it safely drag racing with up to 1,500 horse power.)
After 1999, production was switched to Windsor and the block was lighter at 80 pounds but was not as strong, as Sean said other racers had, had, block failures. He said that it should be safe upto 600 horse power although he had not tried one.
As the the tall deck (5.4 truck) block has extra metal, I would imagine that it will weigh at least 100 pounds in comp. version, which is what most current alloy Chevy blocks weigh and probably more that a short deck Windsor (Boss) block as Fords were known for weighing less than Chevys.
With the great width of the OHC cylinder heads and extra weight of the cams, I cannot see one single advantage of the new engine over the old, whether it be for street or track.
Bob

[Tim Northcutt]

From the pics, you can tell that I was correct about the architecture of it...

That engine is very large in physical size...but it can crank some power....

[Tim Northcutt]

Now for another of my "Tangents":

Since this Modular Ford engine has in fact been raced in the Multimatic DPs in Grand Am.....

NOTE: It's too big size-wize to put into an open-cockpit LMP....from everything I've read or been told by people who know these engines....

and you can buy a "crate motor" for $15,000....

Should a low-budget team consider the following:

1. Buy an old used GT1 class car (the way Team Elite id with their Lotus Elise)

2. Put this Ford Modular V-8 crate motor in it with whatever gearbox the Multimatic uses....or

2a. Work out someting with Multimatic to get one of their race-developed modular V-8s for a reduced cost and work out an "R&D" agreement with them to help advance the engine to benefit their DP program...


Since a closed-top car provides a larger ovarall space behind the driver to put such a large engine, and it has been done in a DP, this might be another of those "cost-effective" options to compete with an LMP program...

[weeks]

If you want to get the engine from the Focus DP you should talk to Robert Yates. They're the ones who built it.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by weeks
If you want to get the engine from the Focus DP you should talk to Robert Yates. They're the ones who built it.

I'm aware of that....

But I would think that getting a crate motor and having or hiring someone to do a build for you would be A LOT cheaper than going to Robert Yates....

Especially if you're a small-budget team.....

[weeks]

Hypothetically, If you were a small budget team, who would you choose to tune/build your engine?

[Tim Northcutt]

Maybe a noted sprint car engine builder.....

somebody who knows how to get horsepower, but wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg.....

[BSchneiderFan]

But what GT1 car would you drop it into? The best I can think is a Panoz, as I doubt there are any Mercedes-Benzes or Porsches available (also, would a V8 fit in the 911?), and McLarens must be scarce/expensive too. Or perhaps a Sintura or a Harrier?

[Mopar]

BSchneiderFan you would be suprised as to what you can buy these days! Noticed in this months Motorsport the are auctioning of a Mercedes clk gtr 98! also there are quite a few 911 gt1 road cars knocking about now~! also these cars were so good in their day that you probably dont need to change the engines. Crazy idea here Run a 962 adapted to lmp1 spec?!??!

[gttouring]

really anything is an option now with the rules and being able to convert cars to a new regulation and class...

[noise boy 2]

I don't know why one would bother with the modular ford motor, as the drawbacks (packaging, high CG) are not nearly made up for by the potential advantages of the DOHC design. For my bucks, I would have a 6 liter LS6 based engine built. Low CG, extremely efficient valvetrain, and a proven track record (haven't seen a lot of C5R engine failures). Robert