Champ Car & NEW YORK ?!

[zerO]

Here's my latest spiel at www.champcarfan.com ?!




Actually it should have been titled "Champ Car & North East" but due to New York City's size and influence lately the whole tri-state area has been enmassed into "New York".

The story is that besides looking towards an international expansion next year Champ Car is also contemplating adding a race in the New York area. Eversince the demise (actually even earlier) of the infamous parking lot race at Meadowlands CART had been pursuing an alternative venue. And now we hear that OWRS is activey looking into it as well. So, let's review the possibilities:

1. MEADOWLANDS - recently the New Jersey Sports Commission have acquired extra acreage adjoining the Meadowlands Complex and there is a proposal for building a permanent race course on the grounds with Champ Car being the primary attraction. A semi-permanent course could be ready for next year with a finished product by 2006.

2. FLUSHING MEADOWS - this concept has been pursued by both Formula 1 and CART since early '70ies. Home of the US Open tennis tournament is an excellent park location that could easily be transformed into a semi-permanent road course. But there has always been one major snag: the local residents who are aware of the decibel levels a race brings are very much against racing there - funny thing is that their "walkmans" are as loud, if not lauder, but they just don't know that. Many of NYC's Mayors have approved of staging a race at Flushing Meadows Park only to get it voted down by the local residents. Again this year there is such a proposal on the table - both Benie Ecclestone and Kevin Kalkhoven are "dreaming" about it.

3. CENTRAL PARK - this is another concept that has been bandied since the '70ies and basically the same obstacle is here as in Flushing Meadows: "noise pollution" vs the local residents.

4. MANHATTAN - simply impossible: business zoning in so grotesque nowdays that closing some streets off for three days would create chaos that would be felt within a 50 mile radius - racing on the Strip in Las Vegas is easier to accomplish and that can't be done either. period

5. EBBET'S FIELD - this little old Brooklyn airfield could easily be made into a venue similar to Cleveland. Latest word is that it is also being considered as a possibility.

6. WATKINS GLEN - yes, it would be really great to see Champ Car at the famous Glen but chances of it happening anytime soon are quite slim: ISC is currently working on needed modifications and upgrades and is pursuing IRL for their open-wheeled event.

7. LIME ROCK - with the addition of ALMS there is a chance that improvements will be made that would make Champ Car racing there feasible but the track is only 1.5 mile long - don't think OWRS would be interested in it.

8. THUNDERBOLT RACEWAY - yet to be built on park grounds next to Millville airport in Southern New Jersey. This planned $100 million project is slated to have its 4.1 miles long road course ready for business in 2006. Harvey Siegel (one of its builders) has bought, renovated, and expanded the Virginia International Raceway in 1999 - he claims that Thunderbolt will be an even better facility once completed. Judging by the looks of the proposed venue this could definitely become a good venue for Champ Car in near future.

And that is about all there is regarding "Champ Car & New York" - the most likely scenario is a return to new and improved Meadowlands. Hopefully we'll see the world's fastest cars in or around New York by 2006 or sooner ?!

zerO

[gttouring]

they hoped for this before, and will keep trying- nah
the new jersey site sounds a best option, but champcars, is hurting despite some good racing - spike TV has done ZERO to promote this or even themelves anywhere, I used to watch the old channel what was it TNT?
Spike is a dumb channel name and they have the Worst promoters out there.... Explosive action on TNT would be better...
but we have a lame "channel for guys" not promoting and showing Races where almost nobody knows anything about (schedule, drivers, venues, championship points, scoring system...) it may be Spike or CCWS/OWRS fault at trying to reinventing the racing wheel but Champcar seems to be flounder and stumbling like a drunken sailor in a nightclub and people are running the other way, or laughing- sure it can dance but it isn't going home with anyone anymore...
That is the sad state of affairs I feel is with champcar, and adding a "New York" venue won't help much if no one but us loyal and jaded fans hearabout,
is the rest of the world getting better coverage than the US? and what has Gentilozzi done to Trans -Am? speed GT is where its at-now

[Snrub]

Spike does have a CCWS ad that they show. It an in-car shot of someone at Longbeach and says "If you drove 140mph on a city street, you'd be arrested. If he drove 140mph he's get passed."

[Tim Northcutt]

There is one venue not on your list that would be the "Best" New York site...and even people in New York who have been talking about F-1 going thee have talked about this site:

Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn area...


10 minutes away from Kennedy International on the expressway, this place has hosted many large events and the existing runways are in very good shape....

A great road course coudl be set up here that would be about 4.25 mi. long, and there is plenty of hangar space, room ofr camping and parking, and other elements that would make this the "lowest cost' option" for a New York City race....

If you want to see more info about this go to this website:

www.airfields-freeman.com

here is a general aerial shot of the place:

[Tim Northcutt]

I've also zoomed in on aerial photos of this place to ceck conditions visually via other sites...

These are some possible "options" for a curcuit on this site:

Note that the red is the course itself white indicates wehe some pavement "might" have to be topped with asphalt just to ensure that the course would be smooth...


Orange is gravel traps....

Blue is where roads would have to be widened....

[Tim Northcutt]

Based on "minimal work/changes needed to amek an event happen here, this is one option I really like a lot:

[Tim Northcutt]

Here is another that is slightly shorter, and doesn't have the "Hour Glass" at the top of the circuit.....

BTW...the hour glass on the track above could be done very safely...this place has runways that are about 120 ft wide and 5,000 ft long...

But this one is the "keep it simple" approach:

[Tim Northcutt]

Final Note:

I apologize up front to the "Sportscar & GT" guys who also follow this Forum....

and this will NOT become another of Tim's "Abandoned or Little Used Airfields Converted to Race Courses" jag....

But this is quite feasible and could be done in months, not years....

Add it to your lists....because if you want to race in the NYC area or the "Big Apple" itself, this is the least expensive way to do it....and it will meet little opposition for "Noise" or other nonsense, because there aren't residences there....

[Kicking-back]

Looks like a good potential circuit, well done.

[Rob29]

Looks like a boring airfield .

[Tim Northcutt]

Beats the hell out of a boring park or a street parade, Rob 29....

But that's my opinion....

[Cowboy]

Hey Tim, nice design. And no it is not just a boring airfield.

[Dov]

Have to agree with you there, Tim! I would take Cleveland over LB, Denver and Toronto any day of the week!!! That being said, there are a few good street courses like St. Pete and Surfer's.......

[Tim Northcutt]

St. Pete is a superb course!!!!

When I lived in the Tampa Bay area, I always felt that the particular area where that course has been established would make for a great street race, and I was right....

Surfer's also is a good one as well....I just wish other cities had the roadways like those two that would make their courses better than they are....

[zerO]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
There is one venue not on your list that would be the "Best" New York site...and even people in New York who have been talking about F-1 going thee have talked about this site:

Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn area...


10 minutes away from Kennedy International on the expressway, this place has hosted many large events and the existing runways are in very good shape....

A great road course coudl be set up here that would be about 4.25 mi. long, and there is plenty of hangar space, room ofr camping and parking, and other elements that would make this the "lowest cost' option" for a New York City race....

If you want to see more info about this go to this website:

www.airfields-freeman.com

here is a general aerial shot of the place:

Hey Tim,
a friend just e-mailed me on that - I've made a typo: instead of "Ebbet's Field" should have read "Bennett Field" - those two names always mix up in my head... sorry about that...

zerO

[Tim Northcutt]

I was wondering if they had named an airport after what was once a baseball stadoium in New York...

Isn't Ebbets Field where the Brooklyn Dodgers played befre the left for Los Angeles???

But I'm glad it actually was intended for your original list....

It would make a great venue for a road course, and apparently there is a history thee with SCCA racing on the runways at one time....

[zerO]

Hey Tim,
I'll have it fixed on my site in a few hours...

Ebbet's doesn't exist anymore - many years ago it became a housing complex... silly baseball thingy in me (25yrs in NYC) and those two names always get messed up in my head, especially after a few kamikazees... yeah, Dodgers used to play there - now there is just a bronze plaque in a rock to reminiscence 'em...

On the other hand, I'm glad that you're excited about "Bennett Field" and I and a few of my friends have written to various places about it - looks like the Champ Car Troika are looking into it - which means nothing re: NY is any "solid" - Meadowlands is in a "project" stage as well ?!

zerO

[brightline]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
Here is another that is slightly shorter, and doesn't have the "Hour Glass" at the top of the circuit.....

BTW...the hour glass on the track above could be done very safely...this place has runways that are about 120 ft wide and 5,000 ft long...

But this one is the "keep it simple" approach:

I particluarly like the esses to give the true road course flavor and differentiate it from Cleveland. The one question I have is if the runways are 5000 ft. long, that's almost a mile! What kind of speeds would those cars be reaching by the braking point. From a safety point maybe a little chicane might be necessary, I've gotta believe after almost a mile in a straight line the cars would be well over 200mph.

[Tim Northcutt]

Those things could be tweaked on runways that are 120 ft wide....

That would be up to the OWRS competition people to ascertain those types of things...

[Omega99]

Those courses look awesome! I love the hour glass and the esses. Combined, they'd make an airport course that would be a lot like a road course. Cleveland porduces some great racing, and I heard that the Trans Am airport race in Puerto Rico. There's just something about airports. Probably the long and wide runways with tight corners and lots of runoff.

[Amar7605]

All of this looks good, but it looks as if nothing will happen until 2006 at the earliest. And lets hope that this little rumor is fact!

[zerO]

Well, here's little something worth considering... even though we all knew of the rumors for some time now it is kind of official now that Bernie was/is looking at an USGP race either in Manhattan or returning to Long Beach - it has been reported in IndyStar and = http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns13080.html

Not really surprised that Bernie is willing to sign an extention at Indy since there really isn't any possible venue in US that could stage a F1 race, but we can easily suppose from that "news" OWRS as well have been looking into a race in Manhattan however unlikely such an event might be - a part Central Park and part city streets/avenues design could well be thought of - feasibility of it happening is another ballgame... and by Bernie's agreement to extend F1's contract with TG we can easily see that a GP race in Manhattan isn't going to happen anytime soon... so, back to the drawing board we go...

zerO

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by zerO
Well, here's little something worth considering... even though we all knew of the rumors for some time now it is kind of official now that Bernie was/is looking at an USGP race either in Manhattan or returning to Long Beach - it has been reported in IndyStar and = http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns13080.html

Not really surprised that Bernie is willing to sign an extention at Indy since there really isn't any possible venue in US that could stage a F1 race, but we can easily suppose from that "news" OWRS as well have been looking into a race in Manhattan however unlikely such an event might be - a part Central Park and part city streets/avenues design could well be thought of - feasibility of it happening is another ballgame... and by Bernie's agreement to extend F1's contract with TG we can easily see that a GP race in Manhattan isn't going to happen anytime soon... so, back to the drawing board we go...

zerO

Quick Note:

Bernie was quoted not only in the Indy Star but also on camera at a news event that F-1 plans on staying in Indy for as long as Tony wants to do it, and the reason why is because Bernie appreciates the fact that TG spent a ton of money to accommodate them to bring them here, and that he bends over backwards to accommodate them each year....

So if there is another F-1 event in the US later on, then there will be TWO races in the USA....

That is basically what he said this weekend...so F-1 will be in Indy as long as TG wants them there....and I see no reason why he wouldn';t want them there...more money for his wallet....

[rasgueado]

I live closed to the medowlands in NJ and although I have no inside
information, I don't think that it feasible to have a race there.
They are looking to take down Continential Arena and have the Devil's
play in Newark. All the plan's I heard for the area are for I think
are for like a transit hub and more shopping areas. If anyone lives around there could attest to and I have pretty much my whole life around Northern NJ, New York City is coming west and the area will be developed for residential\commercial, its not that open an area land wise.

[zerO]

Originally posted by rasgueado
I live closed to the medowlands in NJ and although I have no inside
information, I don't think that it feasible to have a race there.
They are looking to take down Continential Arena and have the Devil's
play in Newark. All the plan's I heard for the area are for I think
are for like a transit hub and more shopping areas. If anyone lives around there could attest to and I have pretty much my whole life around Northern NJ, New York City is coming west and the area will be developed for residential\commercial, its not that open an area land wise.

The extra-added acreage is North/Nortwest of the present complex' site - some small trees and whatever weeds grow on top of the once dump site... the plan is to get rid of Nets Arena and build a motorsports complex ?!... now, should they not be able to attract enough interest from various motorsports organizations (in order for the venture becoming profitable) THEN they'll go to Plan B which is a shopping mall or whatever ?!... and that is the latest I've heard - the decision on that should be made by around September... there still is a strong chance for a motorsports complex (ie: permanent road course) becoming a reality - here's a short list of "companies" who are interested in it: OWRS, FIA, IRL, NASCAR, ISC, SMI, etc.... agreed, that this still is in a fantasy stage but there is enough interest for this being considered as Plan A ?!... (insert "idea" emoticon)...

zerO