Turn 8 at Clipsal

[STEALTHY]

G Force on the Body. Got it in one!

One would think a barrier that moves when you hit it is reducing the speed of impact than if it didn't move like in coopers crash.

It was a freak accident, just as porters was. change any circumcstance ever so slightly, and both outcomes would be completely different. i can't beleive were going through it all again.

[mac]

Originally Posted by fomoco

GUys gUYS gUYS , You are still missing the point and are starting to sound like Waffle crompton.

A V8 Supercar clipped or ran over a kerb/mound painted with yellow stripes , whatever,( my wife loves that one), but it still doesn't answer how a left hand impact in a right hand car caused a death.

I suggest to a couple of posters that it had nothing to do with clipping the inner wall, or the outer wall, more to do with some thing internal.

I'm sorry fomoco, but you are the one missing the point - they are two distinctly different discussions.

1) What caused the accident? Which is what pecky, stealthy, and myself have been discussing.

AND,

2) What could be done to minimise injury in side impacts in V8Supercars? Which is your point - and no lesser issue... just a different one.

[dazza027]

A combination of both Roll Bar Setup,and the G force on a body as a result of the strength of the cage and the inability of the cage to absorb and soften the energy created when 1.5 tons of metal and rubber etc travelling at 200 kph hits multiple 6 ton blocks of concrete which tend not to move would be admissable causes to Ashleys death.
What could be done? Everyone is screaming for a reprofile of turn 8. I wonder if there is needed a change of the design of the front and rear of the cars themselves, ie a reasonably controllable deformable structure built into the cars, much the same as the deformable area at the front and rear of road cars. Im tending to think that focus has been taken away from the primary role of a rollcage being to protect the driver in an accident and is now primarily to increase torsional rigidity of the chassis with protection to the driver as a bonus. Maybe this needs to be looked at? After all, a vehicle of that size hitting solid concrete at an angle seen in the Cooper accident last year is going to create one hell of a G loading on the driver, and I dont really care how fit and healthy a driver is, there is only so many Gs that a body can take (app 50g is fatal if memory serves correctly).

[STEALTHY]

Maybe all cars should be fitted with ejector seats. When someone gets too close to a wall, it automatically fires them out. Problem solved.

[BlueBlood]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Maybe all cars should be fitted with ejector seats. When someone gets too close to a wall, it automatically fires them out. Problem solved.

Unless you happen to be under a pedestrian overpass of course.

[EBXR8]

Yeah i can understand the need to improve saftey if that is there plan. What is going to be done to the FF Series in the wake of Lucas Dumbrell tragic injuries?? I can see the thread is about clipsal but what about motorsport in general. Have they not been deveolping the technoligy to make softer more impact friendly barriers?? V8 Supercars is now an international event not just your run of the mill backyard go kart meeting.

Its time to get into the 21st centuary Concrete Barries and tyre walls provide little or no protection.

Look at the Rat he has hit both tyre and Concrete yes he was luck enough to live but i doubt he will return to the cockpit of a V8 anytime soon.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by BlueBlood

Unless you happen to be under a pedestrian overpass of course.

Or you are a member of the Jones family and the car is upside down!

[alfacors]

The argument over why Ashley died is irrelevant. It's the fact he had the accident at all. Driver error or otherwise, we need to minimise the chances of it reoccurring regardless of whether the driver walks away or not. If the reprofiling even reduces the number of cars hitting that wall by ONE, it's still reducing the risk. Motorsport is dangerous, sure, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing what we can to minimise the risk.

[xr8]

I have been reading this topic with interest as my son drives an Aussie Racing Car and he takes turn eight flat at not much less speed than a V8 supercar and he says it is very marginal!
I do not have any suggestions but I would hate to see an aussie hit the wall at that turn as there is much less metal around you.
Any suggestions are better than none and just maybe cams can make it safer and help save lives.

[Peter Ford]

They have try to fix the infamous turn 8 but whatever they did,drivers still crashed,if the ywanted to get rid of it ,the answer is bring the remaining grand prix track back(rumours it was going to be for the 2009 races)and then they wont have to worried about turn 8 anymore.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Peter Ford

They have try to fix the infamous turn 8 but whatever they did,drivers still crashed,if the ywanted to get rid of it ,the answer is bring the remaining grand prix track back(rumours it was going to be for the 2009 races)and then they wont have to worried about turn 8 anymore.

I argued this point before, but it was said that the corner would still be of the same speed, just making the straight longer. I hope they do bring it in eventually, i had a chance to go to the 95 GP and didn't take it, and have been kicking myself since.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by EBXR8

Its time to get into the 21st centuary Concrete Barries and tyre walls provide little or no protection.

Look at the Rat he has hit both tyre and Concrete yes he was luck enough to live but i doubt he will return to the cockpit of a V8 anytime soon.

Not entirely correct there. Tyre walls absorb a lot of energy and provide considerable driver protection, earth filled tyre walls are bloody dangerous! Radisich hit an earth filled tyre wall.

[EBXR8]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Not entirely correct there. Tyre walls absorb a lot of energy and provide considerable driver protection, earth filled tyre walls are bloody dangerous! Radisich hit an earth filled tyre wall.

Yeah i know david, but still there are new and safer ways out there now

[peckstar]

like what?

[STEALTHY]

Tyre walls at turn 8 would just throw the cars back into the line of traffic.......

[peckstar]

they often get thrown back anyway, depends on the angle of impact

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by peckstar

they often get thrown back anyway, depends on the angle of impact

And the design of the track. Theres been plenty of decent alternatives listed in here. Tyres on the track as it was last year wouldn't help.

[DAVID PATERSON]

A tyre wall with a huge conveyor belt in front of it is a pretty safe barrier, but surely moving the walls back on both sides would be a great start.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

A tyre wall with a huge conveyor belt in front of it is a pretty safe barrier, but surely moving the walls back on both sides would be a great start.

Great for stopping the large impact with a concrete wall. Bad for the impact of the whole field then hitting you cause your sitting in the middle of a blind corner.

I think they should go back to the older version, where theres plenty of runoff, and just give a penalty to those who try and cut it. BJ was pretty against that setup, as he ended up on his roof, but a car on its roof is alot safer than hitting that wall at speed.

[peckstar]

but then we lose the speed as that corner was a lot slower?

[chavez]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Great for stopping the large impact with a concrete wall. Bad for the impact of the whole field then hitting you cause your sitting in the middle of a blind corner.

I think they should go back to the older version, where theres plenty of runoff, and just give a penalty to those who try and cut it. BJ was pretty against that setup, as he ended up on his roof, but a car on its roof is alot safer than hitting that wall at speed.

Penalising drivers for using run off areas is a blight on the sport.

The events this year at the Belgium Grand Prix showed that although large run off areas might improve safety but they can make the racing farcical.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by chavez

Penalising drivers for using run off areas is a blight on the sport.

The events this year at the Belgium Grand Prix showed that although large run off areas might improve safety but they can make the racing farcical.

In the case of keeping the speed of this 1 corner, i'm sure the drivers will make an exception.

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by chavez

Penalising drivers for using run off areas is a blight on the sport.

So is the emasculation of great corners. So is death. Something's gotta give; I think the latter two are what we most need to prevent...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Great for stopping the large impact with a concrete wall. Bad for the impact of the whole field then hitting you cause your sitting in the middle of a blind corner.

I think they should go back to the older version, where theres plenty of runoff, and just give a penalty to those who try and cut it. BJ was pretty against that setup, as he ended up on his roof, but a car on its roof is alot safer than hitting that wall at speed.

The old corner was changed as the design of it had the cars heading straight at a wall at 90 degrees to their direction of travel - not good and just about all drivers, teams, etc etc were dead set against it.

The walls around the existing turn would have been pushed back if they could be but up until now that hasn't been possible - if a way of achieving this has been found then that would be a good thing.

It is not an easy corner but the theory of its design (that a car would run down the outside barrier) has more often than not been the result of crashes there. If it can be tweaked to make it safer again then clearly that should be a good thing.

[STEALTHY]

The problem was that after the corner, along the outside of that wall is an access road for residents. Which is why if you remember Whites crash where he backed into the wall, it was a teardrop shape (where the intersection is, therefore not clocking peoples access, meaning theres not really much room to move the 'whole' wall back, only the part right near the turn itself.


Reverting back the the GP circuit would have solved this, as there is alot more room where 'turn 8' (think it would become the 10th turn tho) would be, and less room needed for residents.

With that becomes the problem of the hairpin, as with any other SA resident that uses it regularly, demolishing the Britannia 5about can only be a good thing haha