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Old 19 Aug 2016, 11:52 (Ref:3666530)   #26
one five five
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Originally Posted by Driver TBA
Excluding this years result. It would be HRT's 14th Bathurst win....
How so?

Do all the various incarnations of "Supercheap Auto Racing" have their stats merged into one?

Did the "Pepsi Max Crew" Falcon stats from 2013, 14 & 15 include Greg Murphy's 2011 Bathurst pole in the "Pepsi Max Crew" Commodore in their stats?



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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Where did I say that?

Red Bull will be the sponsor of the official factory racing team of Holden: Red Bull Holden Racing Team.

As Mobil were the naming rights sponsor of the Walkinshaw owned Mobil Holden Racing Team.

Nothing carries over, just clarifying the fact that the Holden Racing Team name is a property of Holden and as such Holden has decided to transfer that to a new team.
All good, I interpreted what you wrote wrongly
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Old 19 Aug 2016, 13:30 (Ref:3666552)   #27
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How so?

I was taking the pi55 on how Simon McNamara would market the win.


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Old 19 Aug 2016, 13:51 (Ref:3666565)   #28
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I think from here on, the stats will be referred to by the parent owner of the team, be it Walkinshaw, or Triple Eight.
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Old 19 Aug 2016, 16:33 (Ref:3666605)   #29
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Exactly, next year we will be talking about WR as the 7 times title winning team and 888 as the 6 times title winning team, assuming the current stats remain. HRT's stats will get added to those of WR in much the same way FPR's were added to PRA and DJR's to DJRTP when they rebranded.
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Old 19 Aug 2016, 21:49 (Ref:3666648)   #30
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and yet holden claim every holden win, as do ford, often. I have seen many castrol posters showing all the castrol winners, Thus HRT can claim any future wins as part of their history.
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Old 19 Aug 2016, 23:41 (Ref:3666664)   #31
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and yet holden claim every holden win, as do ford, often. I have seen many castrol posters showing all the castrol winners, Thus HRT can claim any future wins as part of their history.
Does get a little confusing. Are all the HDT wins grouped together? The 1979 HDT had a very different ownership structure to the 1980 version.
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Old 19 Aug 2016, 23:46 (Ref:3666665)   #32
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Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
I have seen many castrol posters showing all the castrol winners, Thus HRT can claim any future wins as part of their history.
Castrol can claim all of the victories in which it sponsored the winning car, be it Prodrive, Kelly, Perkins, HDT or anyone else.

Don't think HRT (as in WR) will be able to claim any future 888 victories, would be like the HDT claiming the 1990 Bathurst victory as theirs. And I don't think 888 are going to add WR's victories to its own tally.
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Old 19 Aug 2016, 23:52 (Ref:3666666)   #33
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Are all the HDT wins grouped together? The 1979 HDT had a very different ownership structure to the 1980 version.
True, while there was a new owner, it was the same drivers, same engineers, same workshop with the same naming rights sponsor. So from the outside it was a fairly seamless transition.
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Old 19 Aug 2016, 23:57 (Ref:3666668)   #34
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Originally Posted by anthony81901 View Post
Castrol can claim all of the victories in which it sponsored the winning car, be it Prodrive, Kelly, Perkins, HDT or anyone else.

Don't think HRT (as in WR) will be able to claim any future 888 victories, would be like the HDT claiming the 1990 Bathurst victory as theirs. And I don't think 888 are going to add WR's victories to its own tally.
HRT is just a sponsorship like castrol though. Walkinshaw racing can only claim races they have won whiel using the HRT brand and any future wins,

I read this week articles linking Walkinshaw win sto the the wins of Kelly racing in 2003 and 2004 as well as championship win in 2006 and 2007
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Old 20 Aug 2016, 02:50 (Ref:3666682)   #35
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HRT is just a sponsorship like castrol though. Walkinshaw racing can only claim races they have won whiel using the HRT brand and any future wins,

I read this week articles linking Walkinshaw win sto the the wins of Kelly racing in 2003 and 2004 as well as championship win in 2006 and 2007
Why can Walkinshaw only claim races they've won using the HRT brand? What about Walkinshaw's team winning Bathurst in 1985 and 1998?
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Old 20 Aug 2016, 03:54 (Ref:3666686)   #36
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When Perkins was contracted to run them, does he get those stats?
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Old 20 Aug 2016, 07:05 (Ref:3666695)   #37
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Why can Walkinshaw only claim races they've won using the HRT brand? What about Walkinshaw's team winning Bathurst in 1985 and 1998?
Sigh

and any pre HRT, sorry, took that as a given as they already claimed them, was talking about going forward

Last edited by peckstar; 20 Aug 2016 at 07:17.
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Old 20 Aug 2016, 07:29 (Ref:3666697)   #38
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I read this week articles linking Walkinshaw win sto the the wins of Kelly racing in 2003 and 2004 as well as championship win in 2006 and 2007
People tend to gloss over while Kmart/HSVDT when established in 2001 was a 100% owned TWR subsidiary, from 2003 it was owned by the Kellys with HRT providing the hardware. There was still a close bond witnessed by the 2006 Bathurst drive swap, but the relationship soured after key personnel and the title sponsor were transferred to HRT for 2008.
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Why can Walkinshaw only claim races they've won using the HRT brand? What about Walkinshaw's team winning Bathurst in 1985 and 1998?
Splitting hairs, but Walkinshaw Racing as in the current Australia operation, was founded in 1990. The 1985 and 1998 Bathurst wins were run by TWR UK with no input from the Australian operation.

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When Perkins was contracted to run them, does he get those stats?
Depends on how you define HRT's formation date. Could be beginning of 1988 when Perkins Engineering ran the ATCC campaign on a sub-contract basis. Or Sandown 1989 when the HRT brand debuted. But I think the general consensus is that HRT was formed in 1990 when TWR established a workshop within HSV's facility.
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Old 20 Aug 2016, 08:12 (Ref:3666704)   #39
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The 1998 TWR Volvo campaign was bolstered by George Sheppard's Roadsafe Motorsport personnel.
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Old 20 Aug 2016, 13:55 (Ref:3666730)   #40
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The 1998 TWR Volvo campaign was bolstered by George Sheppard's Roadsafe Motorsport personnel.
I don't believe that TWR had anything at all to do with running Volvos in Australia. Volvo Oz sourced the car from TWR through Volvo Sweden and George Sheppard's team were contracted by Volvo Oz to run the team.
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Old 20 Aug 2016, 14:33 (Ref:3666732)   #41
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George Sheppard's team ran the touring car campaigns. At Bathurst in 1997 some TWR staff were on hand and in 1998 it was pretty much a TWR effort assisted by Sheppard's team.
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Old 20 Aug 2016, 22:35 (Ref:3666792)   #42
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Yep, as per above. I failed to mention Bathurst.
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Old 24 Aug 2016, 09:00 (Ref:3667333)   #43
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Who owns the Holden Dealer Team name? Is it Peter Champion? Maybe Ryan Walkinshaw needs to get on the phone to him.
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Old 26 Aug 2016, 22:58 (Ref:3667752)   #44
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Who owns the Holden Dealer Team name? Is it Peter Champion? Maybe Ryan Walkinshaw needs to get on the phone to him.
Lets not forget that the Holden Dealer Team was totally arranged by Holden corporate to make an end-run around GM's rules that no factory-sponsored racing was allowed.
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Old 27 Aug 2016, 00:06 (Ref:3667759)   #45
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Who owns the Holden Dealer Team name? Is it Peter Champion? Maybe Ryan Walkinshaw needs to get on the phone to him.
I thought Holden owned the "Holden Dealer Team" tag

What Brock owned (and subsequent owners, nowadays Peter Champion) i thought was the "HDT" tag

Hence why after the split, the cars had their "Holden Dealer Team" stickers pulled off, but the "HDT" stickers stayed and the team was still called "HDT Racing", and the business "HDT Special Vehicles"
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Old 27 Aug 2016, 08:49 (Ref:3667804)   #46
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What Brock owned (and subsequent owners, nowadays Peter Champion) i thought was the "HDT" tag
This would seem to be correct, and logically nobody should or would be able to trademark any variant of a name held by a car manufacturer like that.

https://hdt.com.au/
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Old 28 Aug 2016, 13:09 (Ref:3668049)   #47
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I don't believe that TWR had anything at all to do with running Volvos in Australia. Volvo Oz sourced the car from TWR through Volvo Sweden and George Sheppard's team were contracted by Volvo Oz to run the team.
TWR did all the engines for Volvo Australia team
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Old 29 Aug 2016, 00:10 (Ref:3668271)   #48
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TWR did all the engines for Volvo Australia team
That would be TWR UK wouldn't it? They of course supplied the cars to Volvo in their entirety but the team was run for Volvo by George Shepheard through the season.

I'd expect that the engines went back and forth to the UK for rebuilds / updates etc.
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Old 29 Aug 2016, 01:03 (Ref:3668284)   #49
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This would seem to be correct, and logically nobody should or would be able to trademark any variant of a name held by a car manufacturer like that.

https://hdt.com.au/
The ownership of the 'Holden Dealer Team' or 'HDT' name is as clear as mud.

From what I can see Holden (General Motors LLC) have no claim to the name 'Holden Dealer Team' or 'HDT'. Although they do claim the name 'Holden' as their property.

The 'Holden Dealer Team HDT' trademark was originally registered to Holden's Motor Overseas Corporation. This registration has lapsed.

The 'Holden Dealer Team' trademark is now registered by HDT Special Vehicles PTY LTD, which is owned by Sandra Champion.

The 'HDT' trademark was originally registered to P G B Pty Ltd (Brock).

There are now multiple trademark registrations for HDT, primarily registered by Sandra Champion or James Gorman.

The business registration 'Holden Dealer Team' (ABN 44 343 205 538) is owned by Steven Whyte.
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Old 29 Aug 2016, 01:09 (Ref:3668286)   #50
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The ownership of any mark with Holden is pretty irrelevant, if someone tried to use it in VASC Holden would be in court and owning whatever mark it was in about 15 mins.

it is clear and obvious anybody trying to use this mark doesn't own it, it is clearly in the space Holden owns the main brand.

No point discussing this any further really, it just aint happening.
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