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Old 16 Jan 2018, 11:22 (Ref:3793076)   #1051
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Finally...

http://www.williamsf1.com/racing/new...cestrollin2018


RIP Williams F1.
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 11:31 (Ref:3793083)   #1052
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So Sirotkin gets the race seat and Kubica is reserve and development driver.

Presumably if Sirotkin doesn't perform (or if the cashflow dries up) they can drop kubica into the race seat.....

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Old 16 Jan 2018, 11:35 (Ref:3793084)   #1053
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Announcing Kubica as reserve and development driver only makes it worse. It should have been the other way around.


http://www.williamsf1.com/racing/new...elopmentdriver
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 12:04 (Ref:3793088)   #1054
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this has been said before, but it doesn't seem to get through. you do realise that pay drivers were an integral part of williams' history? and the thing that really ended williams last time was allowing somebody else to buy into the team?

nothing has changed. in business you cut your cloth according to what you can afford...
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 12:32 (Ref:3793092)   #1055
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this has been said before, but it doesn't seem to get through. you do realise that pay drivers were an integral part of williams' history? and the thing that really ended williams last time was allowing somebody else to buy into the team?

nothing has changed. in business you cut your cloth according to what you can afford...
I don't think it is particularly about money and to a certain extent CW's pleas on that front have been somewhat underminded by Force India beating them by miles on a smaller budget and less in the way of infrastructure and resources. They would have beaten Williams in 2017 with ONE car, which is staggering.

They are leaner, keener and have always focused on the best driver line up they can get, whereas Williams seem to have a big team mentality and mindset on a small budget. They also keep repeating the same errors with car development, putting bits on the car that don't work and losing their way, which I know doubt PL will address.
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 12:37 (Ref:3793094)   #1056
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this has been said before, but it doesn't seem to get through. you do realise that pay drivers were an integral part of williams' history? and the thing that really ended williams last time was allowing somebody else to buy into the team?

nothing has changed. in business you cut your cloth according to what you can afford...
Be that as it may, perhaps you can name a worse driver pairing on the grid in 2018?
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 12:56 (Ref:3793097)   #1057
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I don't think it is particularly about money and to a certain extent CW's pleas on that front have been somewhat underminded by Force India beating them by miles on a smaller budget and less in the way of infrastructure and resources. They would have beaten Williams in 2017 with ONE car, which is staggering.

They are leaner, keener and have always focused on the best driver line up they can get, whereas Williams seem to have a big team mentality and mindset on a small budget. They also keep repeating the same errors with car development, putting bits on the car that don't work and losing their way, which I know doubt PL will address.
Paddy doesn't seem to have prevented the installation of really poor nuts behind the steering wheels!

Williams seem to be of the opinion that drivers don't matter, yet seem to have proved comprehensively that they do!
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 12:58 (Ref:3793098)   #1058
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Be that as it may, perhaps you can name a worse driver pairing on the grid in 2018?
someone has to have the... i'm not saying worst because you can't really tell from out here. it's not possible. but sirotkin is a similar driver to ericsson - occasionally pretty quick but it's hard to tell what goes wrong when they aren't. i think stroll is better than most give him credit for, but i'm not sure *how* good.

this is either a very interesting read or a spectacular work of fiction. you decide which.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature...as-put-on-hold
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 14:32 (Ref:3793109)   #1059
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I'm just glad first of all that all this speculation is over. We don't know how good Sirotkin will be yet, so I'll reserve judgement, he could surprise. He's not as inexperienced in racing as Stroll. At least Kubica as a back up might work
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 15:10 (Ref:3793115)   #1060
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RIP Williams F1.
They had Senna/Maldonado some years ago...
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 15:34 (Ref:3793120)   #1061
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It’s difficult to see Stroll/Sirotkin being a match for Pérez/Ocon or Hülkenberg/Sainz. Possibly not even for Gasly/Hartley. Which could be very bad news for Williams. Is the team finally in a death spiral?
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 16:51 (Ref:3793132)   #1062
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It’s difficult to see Stroll/Sirotkin being a match for Pérez/Ocon or Hülkenberg/Sainz. Possibly not even for Gasly/Hartley. Which could be very bad news for Williams. Is the team finally in a death spiral?
Any of the Force India or Renault drivers would have been a massive improvement, but as someone has pointed out a few pages ago, why would any of those drivers choose Williams? Even one of the Haas drivers would be an improvement (IMHO).

I would love to see Williams back at the sharp end. The days of Williams and McLaren battling for the drivers titles and even race wins seem to be a long time ago.
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 17:08 (Ref:3793136)   #1063
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time will tell if its a bad move.

worst case though is that they move down the constructors table while making more money from pay drivers then they would have in merit based prize money.

and all things being equal, with the Renault factory team and Mclaren poised to move up the ladder, Williams achieving higher then 6th on the table is going to be a tall order.

of course their car may be magic in 2018 but i suspect they already know it isnt.

for sure uninspiring lineup but imo i would say its still a sound business/financial decision and they live to fight another day (season).
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 17:13 (Ref:3793137)   #1064
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this has been said before, but it doesn't seem to get through. you do realise that pay drivers were an integral part of williams' history? and the thing that really ended williams last time was allowing somebody else to buy into the team?

nothing has changed. in business you cut your cloth according to what you can afford...
I don't disagree with anything above. I would add that an integral part of Williams is a desire to survive. Live to fight another day.

I tend to wonder if some of the current strategy is to survive given the current rules they play within (issues with inequity between the teams). However... Williams does get a special "Heritage" payment right? Regardless, I wonder if they are just trying to survive until things change (hopefully) when the current Concorde agreement ends at the end of 2020?

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I don't think it is particularly about money and to a certain extent CW's pleas on that front have been somewhat underminded by Force India beating them by miles on a smaller budget and less in the way of infrastructure and resources. They would have beaten Williams in 2017 with ONE car, which is staggering.

They are leaner, keener and have always focused on the best driver line up they can get, whereas Williams seem to have a big team mentality and mindset on a small budget. They also keep repeating the same errors with car development, putting bits on the car that don't work and losing their way, which I know doubt PL will address.
No comments from me as to "why" Williams seems to struggle vs. Force India. But... it's a point that is hard to ignore. Williams "should" be doing better.

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Old 16 Jan 2018, 17:20 (Ref:3793138)   #1065
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It gives me no pleasure to say it, but I think Williams are mired in the mid grid unless and until a new manufacture comes in to partner them with works engines (and I see no sign of that). With Mercedes engines, they should be challenging for third or fourth but they’re just not. I foresee a bleak 2018.
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 17:53 (Ref:3793142)   #1066
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Why on earth would Kubica want a role as reserve driver, at this stage of his career you would think he would choose a good series and go out and enjoy some racing, not drive a Williams on a couple of test days
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 18:29 (Ref:3793148)   #1067
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Why on earth would Kubica want a role as reserve driver, at this stage of his career you would think he would choose a good series and go out and enjoy some racing, not drive a Williams on a couple of test days
I presume he will be driving elsewhere, and the reserve driver is just in case the race seat becomes available. If he's driving, for example, in WEC (just a random choice there), then it makes sense to be the Williams reserve driver if it doesn't affect anything.
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 21:21 (Ref:3793194)   #1068
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Why on earth would Kubica want a role as reserve driver, at this stage of his career you would think he would choose a good series and go out and enjoy some racing, not drive a Williams on a couple of test days
The quote below from the prior page makes sense to me...

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Presumably if Sirotkin doesn't perform (or if the cashflow dries up) they can drop kubica into the race seat.....
Also... maybe what Kubica is just very focused on any chance at making an F1 return work???

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Old 17 Jan 2018, 01:27 (Ref:3793230)   #1069
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They had Senna/Maldonado some years ago...
Either of whom would eat these three clowns for breakfast.
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Old 17 Jan 2018, 02:17 (Ref:3793238)   #1070
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Either of whom would eat these three clowns for breakfast.
Oh, come on - Bruno Senna against Robert Kubica? Seriously?
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Old 17 Jan 2018, 02:41 (Ref:3793242)   #1071
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Oh, come on - Bruno Senna against Robert Kubica? Seriously?
I reckon he is every bit as quick as Kubica

Daytona Roar qualifying 2018 (See F1 Drivers Moonlighting thread.)

Car 32

Bruno Senna 1:37.779
Paul DiResta 1:38.869
Hugo de Sadelaar 1:39.719
Will Owen 1:39.869

Looks like young Bruno isn't as slow as some think, specially up against Di Resta, another Williams wannabee.

1.09 secs clear of DiResta.

Take Bruno instead of an injured and long time out of F1 Kubica anytime.
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Old 17 Jan 2018, 05:32 (Ref:3793254)   #1072
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Bruno wasn't too impressive in Formula E and was left without a seat in 2018. I don't know that Di Resta is all that flash either. He's now a commentator...

I'll be curious to see how Sirotkin goes. It'll be hard to compare him to Stroll since Stroll was so inconsistent last year. In years to come it could be revealed that Stroll/Sirotkin is a super team-up, but right now on paper it's the worst in the field.

If Kubica was faster he probably would have got the seat right? They did enough tests, so did Renault or whoever else it was that tested Kubica. They picked Sergey so he probably was faster. Perhaps the rumour that Kubica couldn't get the tyre to work for quick laps is true.

I don't know what Autosport article said though.

I do have to wonder, if Kubica was really serious about this, why is the only series he's done in 7 years WRC? It's hardly comparable to F1, he might as well have gone midget racing or drifting. Even then, his WRC results aren't amazing, I feel like he just fills the field. He did good in WRC2 winning the title in 2013, but not much since then and 5 years is a long time. He probably only has 5 more years in him in a F1 car (more in other series).

I don't think he did any racing in 2017 did he? Just a couple of Renault F1 tests was his entire year. Why wouldn't he have gone out and done some WEC, Blancpain, DTM, Porsche, heck even a guest FE race since he should really be testing himself in single seaters. Anything to stay fresh and relevant, show he still has the speed because we really don't know just going by WRC. Unless his hand can't take too much?
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Old 17 Jan 2018, 05:33 (Ref:3793255)   #1073
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I reckon he is every bit as quick as Kubica

Daytona Roar qualifying 2018 (See F1 Drivers Moonlighting thread.)

Car 32

Bruno Senna 1:37.779
Paul DiResta 1:38.869
Hugo de Sadelaar 1:39.719
Will Owen 1:39.869

Looks like young Bruno isn't as slow as some think, specially up against Di Resta, another Williams wannabee.

1.09 secs clear of DiResta.

Take Bruno instead of an injured and long time out of F1 Kubica anytime.
Bizarre! And to use mock Daytona qualifying times where the drivers were on different tyres.

Bruno is a decent driver but not F1 level and he had many more opportunities than most.
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Old 17 Jan 2018, 05:48 (Ref:3793256)   #1074
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Sorry, off topic post...

I know his time in F1 did not reflect what I'm about to say, but... Bruno Senna has a natural talent and is a very gifted driver. He has a natural ability, and some even say almost a similar natural ability when behind the wheel to Hamilton.

His motorsport career started very late when the Senna family had banned motorsport early on for Bruno after his uncle's and Father's deaths just two years apart. But he made it to F1 from F3 in just 5 years, having started in F3 for 2005, and with hardly any serious motor racing background before 2004.

What he did at the 2006 Australian GP when in F3 was pretty awesome to watch first hand. That weekend, the paddock took notice of Senna.

In early 2009, the rumours were Ross Brawn apparently had offered Senna a full time drive for 2009 alongside Button. The deal however was that Rubens Barrichello had to step aside as Barrichello already had a contract for 2009 with Brawn GP. Ross Brawn wanted Senna in the seat. Barrichello selfishly did not give up his seat for Senna. And you cannot blame him as most racing drivers are that way inclined. So Senna missed out on his F1 debut in 2009 with what turned out to be the championship winning team. I would have bet everything that I had on Senna beating Button to the WDC title. Can you imagine what Bruno Senna's F1 career would have turned out to be had Barrichello stepped aside for his fellow country man, and his good friends nephew in 2009? And if Senna had won the WDC on debut?

And what a whining, ungrateful sod did Barrichello turn out to be in 2009 with his outbursts towards the Brawn GP team?
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Old 17 Jan 2018, 06:16 (Ref:3793258)   #1075
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Senna beating Button would have been a 1,000:1 shot. Decent driver but not the full package for F1.
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