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Old 5 Sep 2017, 21:33 (Ref:3764820)   #31
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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Good question as to what Honda wants. I have no clue if Honda wants to push specific drivers or not.
I just wonder about why they are willing to fund Alonso?
He is not gaining a massive amount of points (or even results) over his relatively inexperience teammate. And he has also been critical of Honda on many an occasion.

So what does Alonso provide for Honda at the moment?
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Old 5 Sep 2017, 23:45 (Ref:3764848)   #32
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I just wonder about why they are willing to fund Alonso?
He is not gaining a massive amount of points (or even results) over his relatively inexperience teammate. And he has also been critical of Honda on many an occasion.

So what does Alonso provide for Honda at the moment?
Not really his fault though, is it?

What does Honda provide for Alonso at the moment?
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 10:51 (Ref:3764911)   #33
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So again, Red Bull have an engine that isn't good enough, so they're going to swap it for an exploding toaster?
With Red Bull's engine contract running out at the end of 2018, they might be willing to give Honda just over a season to come good? They would be in prime position for 2019 to take the better of the two engines at that stage.
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 11:16 (Ref:3764914)   #34
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With Red Bull's engine contract running out at the end of 2018, they might be willing to give Honda just over a season to come good? They would be in prime position for 2019 to take the better of the two engines at that stage.
Exactly.

And they don't have anything to lose either. Similar to how they use(d) Torro Rosso to train/evaluate drivers for the main Red Bull team, they can use it as a training/proving ground for the engine.

And in contradiction to McLaren, winning race or even getting podiums is not why Torro Rosso exists. They can afford a rather bad year, if Honda fails to improve.
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 11:33 (Ref:3764919)   #35
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If RBR were to switch to Honda power in 2019, it would probably only be for two years (2019 and 2020). So not a long association to build a winning "works" team and take on Mercedes and Ferrari.

I don't see RBR being the factory Honda team in 2019. But I could be wrong.
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 13:11 (Ref:3764935)   #36
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If RBR were to switch to Honda power in 2019, it would probably only be for two years (2019 and 2020). So not a long association to build a winning "works" team and take on Mercedes and Ferrari.

I don't see RBR being the factory Honda team in 2019. But I could be wrong.
I don't think they'd need to wait until 2019. If the Honda unit turned out to be better than the Renault in early 2018 (which is likely if Alonso is Renault-powered), then I'm sure Red Bull would find a way to get it in their car earlier.
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 13:27 (Ref:3764938)   #37
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Quite frankly Honda have thrown away all the progress they were making last season. I wouldn't be surprised if they are not on the 2018 grid
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 15:03 (Ref:3764963)   #38
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Quite frankly Honda have thrown away all the progress they were making last season. I wouldn't be surprised if they are not on the 2018 grid
Yes but can Honda be seen to walk away without success.

The cultural effect of "losing face" by giving up on a failed attempt may be too much and "force" the senior management to continue at what is hard to believe isn't already a massive financial loss.
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 15:35 (Ref:3764967)   #39
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Yes but can Honda be seen to walk away without success.

The cultural effect of "losing face" by giving up on a failed attempt may be too much and "force" the senior management to continue at what is hard to believe isn't already a massive financial loss.
They do have form for this though when they pulled out as a team owner and handed it over to Brawn - with a budget...

What they should of done is to buy (with McLaren) Manor GP and used this as basically an ongoing test and development programme, this would have given them more than twice the data and experience, as they could sacrifice results and as along as the cars were relatively competitive, used them as test mules.
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 18:18 (Ref:3764999)   #40
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They do have form for this though when they pulled out as a team owner and handed it over to Brawn - with a budget...

What they should of done is to buy (with McLaren) Manor GP and used this as basically an ongoing test and development programme, this would have given them more than twice the data and experience, as they could sacrifice results and as along as the cars were relatively competitive, used them as test mules.
That gives me an interesting thought. Although Honda don't have a whole team to dispose of for 100 quid or whatever it was Brawn robbed them of it for, could Honda get out this time by handing the development of their PU over lock stock to an outside business bit like they had with Mugen in the past?
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Old 6 Sep 2017, 18:49 (Ref:3765014)   #41
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That gives me an interesting thought. Although Honda don't have a whole team to dispose of for 100 quid or whatever it was Brawn robbed them of it for, could Honda get out this time by handing the development of their PU over lock stock to an outside business bit like they had with Mugen in the past?
Not quite as simple as you make out, Chunterer.

Firstly, Honda actually financed Brawn during the early days, to the tune of several, possibly hundreds of, millions. And secondly, although Mugen was a totally autonomous business, it was started by a member of the Honda family.

Just looked it up to refresh my memory; it was actually the son of the founder of Honda that formed Mugen.
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Old 7 Sep 2017, 09:12 (Ref:3765149)   #42
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I like the idea of Honda buying out Manor to help development. Would have been less embarrassing
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Old 8 Sep 2017, 13:53 (Ref:3765443)   #43
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Not quite as simple as you make out, Chunterer.

Firstly, Honda actually financed Brawn during the early days, to the tune of several, possibly hundreds of, millions. And secondly, although Mugen was a totally autonomous business, it was started by a member of the Honda family.

Just looked it up to refresh my memory; it was actually the son of the founder of Honda that formed Mugen.
I know this
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Old 9 Sep 2017, 23:22 (Ref:3765722)   #44
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Predictions on Scuderia Toro Rosso Honda's Constructors Championship position in season 2018?

Mr Kvyat and Mr Matsushita as likely pilots.

10th..
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 08:25 (Ref:3765782)   #45
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Predictions on Scuderia Toro Rosso Honda's Constructors Championship position in season 2018?

Mr Kvyat and Mr Matsushita as likely pilots.

10th..
Matsushita doesn't have enough points to get a superlicense
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