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Old 23 Aug 2017, 01:31 (Ref:3761050)   #31
V8 Fireworks
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Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
We do however need to find the replacement cars/ models. In the past it just rolled along as next model was introduced. But we are at a point now where there is no next model (apart from commodore) So we as the fans are unsure
If Holden and Ford of Australia are unwilling to sell cars that meet the criteria (rear wheel drive performance sedans) to their adoring fans (who, indeed, are more than willing to buy them) then they should not be permitted to race. Simple as that.

Holden, Ford -- out and good riddance(?). Nissan would continue via the Infiniti brand which does sell a compliant RWD performance sedan for homologation.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 04:50 (Ref:3761069)   #32
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Grab a coffee.

I disagree with the article, in part. Yes, the crowd numbers are down. But relevance and category death…?

It appears the key two reasons people jump aboard the “it’s dying” train relate to 1) manufacturer involvement/car relativity, and/or 2) FTA v PAY.

It’s a flawed argument to say “oh, in a year or two they’ll be racing cars that aren’t even made/sold in this country anymore, and without that connection it’s doomed”. Newsflash, the cars you’ve watched race for the last 20 years haven’t been made/sold in this country.

An Aussie Race Car skinned as a Commodore or Falcon is about as close the showroom edition as a Supercar, so I stay on the platform when the whistle blows to jump on the manufacturer irrelevance train.

In terms of the tunnel draft created from the always approaching FTA/FOX express, I just don’t see how it can be identified as a reason for a supposed “imminent doom” for the category/business. Have the crowds lessened in the recent past? Yes. Has this downturn coincided with the shift to PayTV? Partially, however there’s some overlap.

Did anyone think, just for a moment, that the TV product is so good that attending an event is actually less enticing? I, for one, didn’t attend the QR round recently. One of the key considerations was knowing the quality of the Supercars Media broadcast is that good!. I guess then, in some way, the people who say FOX has caused a shift in crowd numbers are right; however they’re not leaving the sport. They’re just watching it at home instead.

I do not assert, even with that defence above, that there’s no problem. I just don’t think the thing is irrelevant or nearing death. And for what struggles it may appear to have from the outside, I don’t think changing technical specifications to satisfy a romanticised need for manufacturer alignment is necessary, and I definitely don’t believe a shift back to FTA is the answer.

I have some ideas, but before we worry too much, let’s not forget the good that already exists.
• The racing quality is second only to MotoGP. Ok, it wrangles with some others for 2nd, but it’s consistently up there.
• The TV product is equal to best motorsport globally
• 26 car grids. Sure, we hear the rumours, but there are always 26 (and sometimes more)
• Street event production/delivery is world class. Seriously, watch some other “world” championships and see how well the Aussies do it.
• Driver and team accessibility and marketability
• Series sponsors – Virgin & Vodafone are two recent additions. Ok, only 2, however 2 can become 4 can become 6. The first few are the hardest.
• That’s just scratching the surface.

So what, then, do I think needs focus if there’s no manufacturer relevance or PayTV issue, and there’s so much good to rave about?

Event ticketing/pricing.

Let’s first look at the signature events, the big six – Adelaide, Townsville, Sandown, Bathurst, GC, Newcastle. They have some or all of the following: history, FTA, sponsors, colour, movement, fun, noise, marketing and government funding. They’ve got the fact they are what they are; it’s a raw, almost effortless appeal. It’s easy to go to one of those, because even though you’re a Supercars fan and that’s what you’re going to see, once you’re there you feel real value for your ticket because there is so much going on. There is so much off-track engagement. They are genuine EVENTS, not a car race.

Let’s shift to the other venues. Tasmania, Winton, QR, SMSP, Perth, PI. (NT & NZ are anomalies). These are not, and will never be events; EVENTS as in the type of experience I detailed for the others. There are no side shows, the show bags suck, the dagwood dogs are rarely hot, and the atmosphere rises, peaks and falls away only when the Supercars are on. At the moment though, if you purchased a ticket for one of these events, you will most likely arrive somewhere between 7 and 8, lay down your blanket with an esky and wait it out until you see what you really came for.

Why? I think the ticketing price makes you commit to going the whole day. I mean, there’s a certain sense of no value for money if you pay for a full day show but only go for a quarter of it. Admit it, you feel better knowing you went the whole day to get the full value of your ticket, even though you rarely pay attention to the other track cleaners, and end up with a nose full of dusty track boogers!

It is my assertion that a growing number of people are having this chat with themselves, “hmmm, its $65 (+paddock), to go watch the Supercars. ****, at that price, I should go all day and see what else is on”. Then… the kicker… “oh hang on, I have to take Johnny to soccer at 8. I have to mow the lawn at some point this weekend. And I promised my partner we’d go check out the café for breakfast this weekend.”

You can still go in the afternoon, and catch the Supercar race, sure. But would you pay 60 or 70 for that? Nope! No value there, and the TV product is ace! So you, and the other 8,000, don’t go.

Proposal:
• Leave the Super6 as they are
• Leave NT & NZ as they are
• For the others; Ticket price (either Sat or Sun):
o $50 for all day access including paddock, and pre race grid walk.
o $35 for access after Supercar practice/before qualifying, including paddock, no grid walk
o $25 for access after Supercar qualifying/before race, no paddock, no grid.
 As well as targeting the hard core “I’m only free in the afternoon fan”, the $25 ticket would tempt new fans. The ones in Wangaratta for Winton, Cowes for PI, Ipswich for QR, Launceston for Tas, all of Sydney for SMSP!
• No g/stand tickets. If venue has g/stands, first in best dressed.
• No VIP/corporate parking. You find a spot, you park.
• One other thing I’d do, and it’s motivated by something I remember as a kid. When a cricket test match was on at the SCG it wasn’t shown on Sydney (or outer burbs) TV unless the event was sold out. So, if you lived close enough, the only way to see it was to attend, or hope for a sell out. I recognise that kind of extreme is not possible these days, so:
o sign up for FOX Sports and receive a ticket (the $50 version) for both Saturday and Sunday at your “local” event”. Might just get more subscribers & more attendees.

Sorry for the long-winded post. Probably could have been said in less words, but when you’ve been standing on the platform waiting for that freight train of positivity and belief, you’ve got a fair bit of time to write!

It astounds me as I flick through posts on this forum how much, what almost seems like hope, people have for others’ failure. People seem, sadly, to take delight in not only predicting some disappointment for another, but them seem gleeful if they’re even just 50% right.

I challenge the main protagonists to use their next 3 posts to be positive about motorsport in this country; specifically, Supercars. We’re doing just fine compared to others.

I couldn't agree more Damien. People sit and complain about the loss of the Holden V8. While I dislike it, I'll still watch V8s as its a necessary change, I don't think it will be forever (remember the Ford FG was a majority 6 cylinder brand, very few XR8's) I hate that we have also lost Ford and Holden, we have lost our identity. But if running a 6 cylinder Holden against a V8 Ford and Nissan is what keeps the category alive, then I cant complain, it may only be 5 odd years and then they decide to re-introduce the V8, the Ford XF, EA never had a factory V8 that I am aware of, then the EB followed and the V8 returned (most likely due to popularity). I think it'll be the same case now. Australia's industry is gone (unfortunately) and we as fans need to suck it up if we want Australian Motorsport to survive.

Now, to the whole idea of people not turning up to events and the numbers of fans are falling. Rubbish. How many times has Bathurst broke a record in the last few years, 14,15 and I am not sure about 16. Why were V8s nominated for the Logies if the series was dying (bad example I know, but a failure wouldn't get that far) For me, I go to what I can, I went to QR, but due to other commitments I couldn't go to Townsville and anywhere outside QLD. I plan to go to the Gold Coast event, but again that's a matter of having the time. When I am not at an event, I watch it on TV, given the views V8s get (The whole Foxtel excuse it getting old) it would be enough to nail most other 'popular' shows on TV
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 07:19 (Ref:3761080)   #33
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How many times has Bathurst broke a record in the last few years,
Who told you that Bathurst broke the record crowd?
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 07:56 (Ref:3761087)   #34
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Who told you that Bathurst broke the record crowd?
Not quite record breaking in 2015, though I am sure I heard it on the broadcast in 2015

2012: http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/10/07/...ge-attendance/

2015:http://www.westernadvocate.com.au/st...bathurst-1000/

2016: http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/10/11/...bathurst-1000/

Here is the amount of people coming in to events yearly. As you can see, the worst year was 2015, every other year the numbers have been fairly equal, with no real downfalls. Last year in fact was equal or roundabout to 12 years ago, which says that the series isn't dying like some clowns think. Its going fairly strong. 2015 also if I remember correctly had a increase in ticket prices, which would explain the lack of attendance, and then the prices dropped again for 2016, the numbers go back up. http://www.austadiums.com/sport/sport.php?sid=8

I see lots of articles from 2015, people complaining about Foxtel, yet no evidence to back up the claims that V8 Supercars went to all new low records, there was evidently a slight fall but not as major as the daily telegraph and media from overseas reported. Last year was one of the higher ratings, this year must be just as good. We sit here and argue why V8s are on Foxtel, that is to do with 7, it was common knowledge in 2014 that V8s wouldn't have had funding to run through 15 under 7, they went to Fox, and now its stabilised again, teams, officials and Fox are working on more free to air broadcasting
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 09:34 (Ref:3761114)   #35
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You do realise those crowd figures are released by Supercars themselves right?

They should be taken with as many grains of salt as an NRL-announced crowd from ANZ Stadium.

It's not in the promoters interests to advertise crowds getting smaller, is it.

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that is to do with 7, it was common knowledge in 2014 that V8s wouldn't have had funding to run through 15 under 7
Must we persist with this total utter rubbish continuing to be spread?

Supercars would still be going along just fine right now if they had signed with Channel 7 and not Foxtel for 2015.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 09:38 (Ref:3761117)   #36
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You do realise those crowd figures are released by Supercars themselves right?

They should be taken with as many grains of salt as an NRL-announced crowd from ANZ Stadium.

It's not in the promoters interests to advertise crowds getting smaller, is it.



Must we persist with this total utter rubbish continuing to be spread?

Supercars would still be going along just fine right now if they had signed with Channel 7 and not Foxtel for 2015.

That's not what many teams were saying. I know that even PRA were concerned about the whole 7 issue. Also, what was 7's main focus (in winter). Stinking football. In summer it was tennis. V8s are better off with Fox, I don't like the reduced coverage but look at the expansions that has happened since they joined Fox. Superutes, Supercars academy next year, introduction of Formula 4 and the other series. More things are available to fans now in shops, I don't know about others but were I live, you can walk into a shop and it has more V8 things in it.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 09:41 (Ref:3761118)   #37
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You do realise those crowd figures are released by Supercars themselves right?

They should be taken with as many grains of salt as an NRL-announced crowd from ANZ Stadium.

It's not in the promoters interests to advertise crowds getting smaller, is it.



Must we persist with this total utter rubbish continuing to be spread?

Supercars would still be going along just fine right now if they had signed with Channel 7 and not Foxtel for 2015.
Got an alternates source for crowd numbers? Some other form of count maybe. unless you have , then it was record crowds

Ha ha at your supercars going along fine comment, In your words utter rubbish 3 cars had handed back there licence to make a field of 25 in 2014, Most teams were struggling financially as a result. Im not sure you have any basis to say "fine".
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 09:56 (Ref:3761123)   #38
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That's not what many teams were saying. I know that even PRA were concerned about the whole 7 issue. Also, what was 7's main focus (in winter). Stinking football. In summer it was tennis. V8s are better off with Fox
The teams were part of the decision to take the Foxtel deal. They were defending their choice of TV partner, it was in their interests to say they were struggling and needed the cash!

They were better off just admitting they took the bigger cheque!

Crying poor as the reason for taking a primarily-pay TV deal over the FTA deal was a card to play.

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Originally Posted by mceci1
Superutes, Supercars academy next year, introduction of Formula 4 and the other series. More things are available to fans now in shops, I don't know about others but were I live, you can walk into a shop and it has more V8 things in it.
Supercars merchandise has been available in shops for decades.
Formula 4 was coming no matter what happened with the Supercars TV deal.
Supercars 'academies' have been around for decades, 20 years ago we had the "Holden Young Lions" and Ford's "Generation XR" program

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Ha ha at your supercars going along fine comment, In your words utter rubbish 3 cars had handed back there licence to make a field of 25 in 2014, Most teams were struggling financially as a result. Im not sure you have any basis to say "fine".
The Championship has run along for nearly 60 years, been through much tougher times than 2014, and you think taking a lesser-paying TV deal was going to bring the championship down..... and you accuse others of saying the sky is falling

Maybe go back and read up on the summer of 1979/80 in touring car land, if the Championship survived that, then it can survive justabout anything.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 10:15 (Ref:3761126)   #39
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Anyone who says the crowd has been bigger than 2012, clearly wasn't there in the following years.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 10:18 (Ref:3761127)   #40
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The Championship has run along for nearly 60 years, been through much tougher times than 2014, and you think taking a lesser-paying TV deal was going to bring the championship down..... and you accuse others of saying the sky is falling

Maybe go back and read up on the summer of 1979/80 in touring car land, if the Championship survived that, then it can survive justabout anything.
Will it? Australian drivers championship was also 60ish years old, hows that going?

At any point we are talking about Supercars and it is much bigger than the championship, it has all these major crowd attending events. big teams If Supercars dies then mainstream motorsport in Australia dies. the people stop attending and it becomes a niche sport for people to race there cars, sort of like the Shannons National events.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 10:22 (Ref:3761128)   #41
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Anyone who says the crowd has been bigger than 2012, clearly wasn't there in the following years.
Or the previous years. Definately 2012 is the record, by far the biggest I have been too.

The spectator areas is so much bigger now than 30 years ago

Last edited by peckstar; 23 Aug 2017 at 10:30.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 10:57 (Ref:3761132)   #42
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Will it? Australian drivers championship was also 60ish years old, hows that going?

At any point we are talking about Supercars and it is much bigger than the championship, it has all these major crowd attending events. big teams If Supercars dies then mainstream motorsport in Australia dies. the people stop attending and it becomes a niche sport for people to race there cars, sort of like the Shannons National events.
We lose V8s, we lose a massive majority of V8s. Most people now who run in local club events are working towards the higher industry, as you said, V8s go, what do we have.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 10:58 (Ref:3761133)   #43
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Anyone who says the crowd has been bigger than 2012, clearly wasn't there in the following years.
I would have thought 2006 was the biggest in recent history, there were a number of people there. But in general Bathurst and the other two enduro's seem to be going from strength to strength on TV and crown attendance
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 11:59 (Ref:3761151)   #44
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V8s go, what do we have.
So why don't we have a credible open wheel series? We had one before with the Tasman series.

PS Supercars seems to go out if their way to attack rivals...
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 12:00 (Ref:3761153)   #45
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You need a couple of million dollars of operational expenditure (ie. sponsorship) per car to be half competitive, which makes a 350k dividend per annum per racing entitlement contract for the foxtel deal head-scratching from a 'commercial' perspective.

The deal simply screws legitimate team sponsors, which you would assume is of greatest importance to a teams survival.

Broadcast hours on FTA and demographic reach is what sponsors are after, and if they aren't going to get it from supercars they'll pack their bags and go elsewhere.

I've worked in the field of sponsorship for a long time and I can assure you, under market contraction if you give a sponsor a tangible excuse to quit, they will.
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