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Old 21 Aug 2017, 02:23 (Ref:3760638)   #1486
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Originally Posted by Sodemo View Post
More than F1 cars race at Monza and other tracks. That same corner is still a challenge in other cars today. I hate seeing tracks torn up for essentially one weekend of the year when the F1 circus is in town and then the other 362 days they have to live with the mess of a layout forced on them by Charlie Whiting.
Back to get the aero off the cars and all these problems magically disappear!
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Old 21 Aug 2017, 06:18 (Ref:3760663)   #1487
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Forgive me, but when has F1 been concerned of late at providing "challenging" race tracks? You can bet your last dollar that every corner will have tarmac paved run off.
I live in hope and though neither is preferable, tarmac run off would be better than sticking a chicane in the middle of the Salotto corner.
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 02:06 (Ref:3760840)   #1488
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I live in hope and though neither is preferable, tarmac run off would be better than sticking a chicane in the middle of the Salotto corner.
Decent gravel trap would be better than either tar or a chicane.
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 02:11 (Ref:3760842)   #1489
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Decent gravel trap would be better than either tar or a chicane.
I thought about a gravel trap. Do they race bikes on that circuit layout?
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 06:34 (Ref:3760858)   #1490
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I thought about a gravel trap. Do they race bikes on that circuit layout?
I am not sure where this business of the bikes needing paved run offs comes from BJ, but here is Catalunya which is the ultimate purpose made bike circuit, an all the run offs are gravel.

Phillip Island is the same!

I don't think that huge paved run offs are a motorcycle requirement (Bernie Red Herring?), am I missing something?
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 06:52 (Ref:3760859)   #1491
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The dog leg on the top right of the picture was added after Salom's fatal crash, caused by no retardation across the only paved run off and slamming into the barrier.
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Old 22 Aug 2017, 10:39 (Ref:3760905)   #1492
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And there was no point to that tarmac run off, as the F1 men don't use that corner
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Old 30 Aug 2017, 02:40 (Ref:3762813)   #1493
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And there was no point to that tarmac run off, as the F1 men don't use that corner
Well, they used to.
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Old 30 Aug 2017, 09:14 (Ref:3762866)   #1494
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Wasn't the chicane introduced to improve overtaking options for F1 on the front straight, the thinking being that the two sweeping right handers were too fast for cars to follow each other close enough?

Before the chicane F1 was using the corner with the paved run-off.
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 19:22 (Ref:3765898)   #1495
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Formula 1 commercial chief Sean Bratches says there have been around 40 expressions of interest from potential grand prix venues since Liberty Media took over earlier this year.
Bratches doesn’t expect to see more permanent Tilke-style tracks built in deserts, on swamps, or on farmland: “In terms of the next tranche of where we’re going, I don’t think you’re going to have too many more purpose-built tracks built.
“We’re going to have an apportionment between city tracks, heritage tracks, and purpose-built. The next objective is to put our shoulders behind more city races. For the reasons I stated, we think that’s a very attractive proposition from our perspective.”
Bratches says that grouping races by regions will be of benefit, especially in terms of transport costs. However, he also believes that it will be good for fans.
"Right now we’re jumping all over the globe with no thoughtful cadence. In an ideal world, and forget the order, but you’d have kind of the first third of the races in Europe, the second third in the Americas, and the last tranche in Asia.
“What that does is allow you create efficiencies in terms of travelling this circus. When we go through Europe, there are 350 18-wheelers that take it around, and north of 10 747s that fly us around the world. So creating efficiencies is I think a big opportunity.
“The other opportunity from a fan standpoint is being able to say to a fan [that] for the next two or three months you’re going to have to get up early to watch the grands prix, and for the next two months it’s midday, and [then] night. So for a navigation of fans to drive audience and viewership, I think it’s very interesting."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/n...atches-950905/
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 19:57 (Ref:3765902)   #1496
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25 is too much for the teams. It's ok for NASCAR as they are in one country
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 20:33 (Ref:3765908)   #1497
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The two main examples being thrown about of corners not being challenging anymore aren't very convincing. Curva Grande at Monza was eased, making it faster, when they went in to add run-off on the outside. Eau Rouge was also re-profiled, and even if it hadn't been, the track has been widened since the new course came about in 1979-80, which in effect, eased basically all of the corners. Not to mention, Eau Rouge/Raidillon has an ocean of paved run-off that the drivers aren't shy about abusing, which makes those turns easier still.

I think the effects of aero often get overblown in road racing, while the impact of the accordion effect is all but forgotten. Maybe those last two turns at Catalunya were a bit tough for following, but the problem is, that chicane is so slow, you get a HUGE expansion in the physical gap between the cars as they accelarate out of there and on around to the pit straight. So, I feel confident in saying that at that track, you're farther back, at a lower speed, than you would have been without the chicane. Furthermore, having a bigger physical gap at a lower speed significantly cuts down on the effectiveness of the slipstream.

NO, outbraking is NOT the ONLY way to overtake. The run from La Source to Les Combes provides a great illustration of all THREE main methods. Those are, getting a better exit out of the corner at the start of the run, slipstreaming, AND THEN, outbraking.
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 20:49 (Ref:3765911)   #1498
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Eau Rouge was only widened because they didn't bother grassing over where it used to go before 1983. This might have something to do with the fact it was a public road at the time. But it wasn't easily flat even when it was wide. After they put in the temporary chicane, they then narrowed the corner with increased run off. Now it's easily flat, especially with the tarmac runoff
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 21:03 (Ref:3765914)   #1499
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From what I'm able to gather online and through print sources, Eau Rouge/Raidillon was eased for 1995, compared to 1993. Obviously, they had that chicane in there as an emergency measure in 1994.
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Old 10 Sep 2017, 21:15 (Ref:3765916)   #1500
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As for Buenos Aires specifically, I imagine they'd use layout 15-S, unless they change or use a shorter pit entry. If they use the existing, long pit entry road, they'll want to slow the cars down more than Tobogan does to aid cars pulling off to the pits, like the WEC has done at the Nurburgring with their switch to the tighter iteration of the chicane there.

I'm not sure if the modern cars will take the first part of Salotto flat-out; I expect that they will do on the second part, but that loop brings something else into the equation. How much do you trim the car out? There's enough of the lap made up by long straights in that case to where taking drag off may be quite beneficial for overtaking using the slipstream.

And for those concerned, Ascari will provide a very effective braking zone for overtaking, as well as a recharge zone. Assuming they use #15, Turn 7 will be a notable braking zone also, though I don't expect it to be a terribly good overtaking zone.

Now, IF they use #12, Parga should definitely also be an effective outbraking and recharging zone.

In addition, I wonder if Siervo won't be flat-out, in which case, getting the line right will be absolutely essential, or else you're a sitting duck on the run up to Salotto.

It's too bad the Horquilla hairpin is no longer available. Then, they could use Tobogan, have a new pit entry after the hairpin, and improve overtaking potential at the end of the lap as well as possibly into Siervo.

Last edited by Purist; 10 Sep 2017 at 21:21.
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