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Old 17 Nov 2017, 20:48 (Ref:3781108)   #1
GTRMagic
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Holden Teams ‘Blowing Up’ Over Cost Of ZB Commodore - Speedcafe

Story Here

This is the real cost of Holden reducing its support to the series..
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Old 17 Nov 2017, 21:21 (Ref:3781115)   #2
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Roland's got them all by the balls on this one. He knows sponsors don't want to remain in the old outdated models. He also knows $60k is cheaper than swapping to a soon to be outdated Altima or FGX.

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Old 17 Nov 2017, 21:36 (Ref:3781116)   #3
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It's just business.

If they don't like it, there are other sandpits to play in. It's not like manufacturers are bashing on the front door to get into the sport.
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Old 17 Nov 2017, 22:10 (Ref:3781121)   #4
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but I can understand why the extra kit cost is a pretty big deal, when some teams who have Nick Percat driving for them will need 2 kits a weekend lol
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Old 17 Nov 2017, 23:15 (Ref:3781130)   #5
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but I can understand why the extra kit cost is a pretty big deal, when some teams who have Nick Percat driving for them will need 2 kits a weekend lol
I laughed at that.

With LDM going to the Ford product, there's already two less buying from Roland, maybe he should up the price to recoup his costs. I dont see where the Holden teams have a leg to stand on, update to the newest toy in the sandpit or reinvest into a new marque? 50K sounds cheap when you look at it like that.
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Old 18 Nov 2017, 00:23 (Ref:3781145)   #6
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
$1.3M at $50K is just 26 kits, surely the IP is recovered by half way through the season
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Old 18 Nov 2017, 00:38 (Ref:3781146)   #7
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The Holden teams will complain at the cost, and most will still rock up at the Sensational Adelaide 500 with brand new ZB Commodore chassis...
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Old 18 Nov 2017, 00:47 (Ref:3781149)   #8
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
You think Walkinshaw is hoping Andretti can rattle the Honda chain and perhaps continue running the current clunkers in the meantime?
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Old 19 Nov 2017, 03:18 (Ref:3781423)   #9
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You think Walkinshaw is hoping Andretti can rattle the Honda chain and perhaps continue running the current clunkers in the meantime?
I'd say Penske would have more of an inside line at Honda than Andretti these days
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Old 20 Nov 2017, 10:24 (Ref:3781644)   #10
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Given that Zak Brown has pretty much just have Honda the finger on a global stage I’d say binging them here in that team is slim to none.
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Old 20 Nov 2017, 13:14 (Ref:3781688)   #11
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Given that Zak Brown has pretty much just have Honda the finger on a global stage I’d say binging them here in that team is slim to none.
If Walkinshaw pay for all of the homologation and engine development, Honda Australia would be fools not to give permission.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 20 Nov 2017 at 13:22.
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Old 20 Nov 2017, 21:06 (Ref:3781818)   #12
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Razor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
As I said somewhere else: There's making profit and then there's ripping people off. The cost for a VF kit is roughly $30,000. So what's the go with the $20K jump in price?
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Old 20 Nov 2017, 21:10 (Ref:3781820)   #13
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As I said somewhere else: There's making profit and then there's ripping people off. The cost for a VF kit is roughly $30,000. So what's the go with the $20K jump in price?
its in the article, But Holden are no longer funding it
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Old 21 Nov 2017, 01:39 (Ref:3781869)   #14
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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As I said somewhere else: There's making profit and then there's ripping people off. The cost for a VF kit is roughly $30,000. So what's the go with the $20K jump in price?
Holden funded the development of the VF kit but 888 have funded the development of the ZB kit, so they need to recoup that investment, plus Holden were able to source spoiled panels from the production line previously which reduced costs significantly, whereas 888 have to buy brand new parts from Germany where they need original parts.
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Old 21 Nov 2017, 14:22 (Ref:3781959)   #15
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On a related note, I read earlier that with Opel having been bought by PSA, they are looking to discontinue the Insignia platform by 2021. This gives the model a short lifespan, and not much time for T8 to recoup design / homologation / production costs.
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 19:52 (Ref:3786356)   #16
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Suggestion that Holden may try and force team to use the V6 in 2019. Holden may block V8 to promote V6 in 2019

Wonder if this could be considered a restriction on trade and catch the eye of the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission?
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 20:09 (Ref:3786361)   #17
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From the article:
The 3.6-litre twin-turbo V6, which has been co-developed by GM Racing and factory Holden team Triple Eight, will only be available to teams on an annual lease.

Although it is claimed that the scheme will save teams money because the yearly lease fee per engine includes scheduled maintenance and replacement, with no development costs, some have complained that the arrangement makes the sale of cars more complicated.
Well then, this is getting a little messy. Unable to run a V8, you'll never own your V6 engine, and you're not allowed to develop them either? And then when you go to sell the car, it either comes with a necessary contract to get engines from GM/Red Bull or without an engine? Wow, if only Ford had an alternative. Or even Nissan. There'd be teams knocking their door down...
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 22:14 (Ref:3786403)   #18
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And this is new news how?

GRM and Erebus dont own the engines in their cars now
Nor do Tekno or Team 18. Or BJR soon.

WAU seems to be the only complainant...
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 23:30 (Ref:3786418)   #19
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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And this is new news how?

GRM and Erebus dont own the engines in their cars now
Nor do Tekno or Team 18. Or BJR soon.

WAU seems to be the only complainant...
But they all have the option to own the engines should they so desire.

This appears to remove that option.
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 23:32 (Ref:3786420)   #20
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Currently teams can build their own engines, and if not they they have the choice of a number of suppliers, namely KRE, Noonan and WAU. In the new world, they wold be compelled to source from the designated supplier. Of course in a perfect world, there would be the option of switching brands, but no one is going to switch to an out of production Altima or Falcon.
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 23:33 (Ref:3786421)   #21
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Can understand the frustration for Walkinshaw as their engines builder becomes redundant unless they change manufacturer (which I'm sure they're trying to do) , and they lose the lease income from grm and Erebus.
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 01:51 (Ref:3786432)   #22
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Be interesting to see whether customers get provided engines to the same spec as T8 or are they maybe a revision behind?

The T8/GM partnership has the potential to be a really good idea, provided it isn't abused
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 02:33 (Ref:3786442)   #23
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Be interesting to see whether customers get provided engines to the same spec as T8 or are they maybe a revision behind?
Nobody is going to engineer 2 specifications of engine, and with the lease arrangement everybody will have the same, unlike currently where there are people running old stuff by choice...
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 02:52 (Ref:3786445)   #24
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Initially no, but over time there will be upgrades and will these be offered to all or will 888 only offer engines a generation behind? There are definitely different versions of suspension, recall Charlie and Tekno running packages a generation or two behind what 888 were using.

Last edited by Jack65; 12 Dec 2017 at 03:03. Reason: gr
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 04:20 (Ref:3786455)   #25
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Initially no, but over time there will be upgrades and will these be offered to all or will 888 only offer engines a generation behind? There are definitely different versions of suspension, recall Charlie and Tekno running packages a generation or two behind what 888 were using.
The suspension choice seems to have been financial, not availability. For example, Mr Kostecki’s stand in car from 2016 had series 5 uprights aboard, while the car it replaced, and the new one built to replace that, continued with series 4 uprights.
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