Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Baltic Touring Car Championship Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Touring Car Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 14 Jan 2005, 11:31 (Ref:1200757)   #26
newoutsider
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 311
newoutsider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just repeating what the man said - and there was no hint of anything but honesty.
newoutsider is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Jan 2005, 19:23 (Ref:1201087)   #27
racingdad
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 723
racingdad has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Ah, I forgot another paid driver - Watson-Smith in the Proton, probably on less than the big boys, more than Huff.
racingdad is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Jan 2005, 20:57 (Ref:1201192)   #28
touringlegend
Race Official
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Panama
Posts: 8,947
touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'm sure I read £80,000 somewhere for Watson-Smith, can't be certain it is correct though.
touringlegend is online now  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2005, 08:35 (Ref:1201444)   #29
racingdad
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 723
racingdad has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
80k could be about right
racingdad is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2005, 09:54 (Ref:1201464)   #30
touringlegend
Race Official
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Panama
Posts: 8,947
touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Although, I think he should of been on £250k for driving that Proton!..
touringlegend is online now  
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2005, 07:40 (Ref:1202022)   #31
kmchow
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location:
Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Posts: 3,919
kmchow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Referring to Collard's previous comments earlier, was there such a big gap between the Works and one year old ex-Works ST cars? Could most ST Independents afford one year old Works cars? Weren't most Independents only able to afford 2-3 year old ST cars? As a result, that's why they were so off the pace? As well, how many independents had the resources to fully maximize their cars to the highest potential?
kmchow is offline  
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever...
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2005, 19:27 (Ref:1202420)   #32
sceptic
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,565
sceptic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In 2004, seven of the Independents cars were 2003 spec ex-works cars - including the one which won the title.

In 2003, I can only think of two Indy's using 2002 spec ex-works cars - but again they included the title-winner.
sceptic is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2005, 20:20 (Ref:1202473)   #33
Super Tourer
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Super Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
United Kingdom
East Anglia
Posts: 4,304
Super Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmchow
Referring to Collard's previous comments earlier, was there such a big gap between the Works and one year old ex-Works ST cars? Could most ST Independents afford one year old Works cars? Weren't most Independents only able to afford 2-3 year old ST cars? As a result, that's why they were so off the pace? As well, how many independents had the resources to fully maximize their cars to the highest potential?

Dynamics did a great job with their Nissan in '99 and had a close relationship with Nissan. TD's car was one of the few recent (year old) cars that was raced against works cars.

As for other indies, manufacturers tended not to sell their cars the following year (some didn't sell them to other teams at all during the ST era), using them for winter testing, often they formed the basis of next years car. If they did sell them it was usually to semi works teams in other series in other countries, Volvo's went to Sweden for example, so cars that came onto the market were often 2 years or more older.

There were also less volume of cars produced, teams were two car only as a rule (pre 2000). Contrast that to the number of Astra coupes there are in the BTCC.

Last edited by Super Tourer; 16 Jan 2005 at 20:21.
Super Tourer is offline  
__________________
'I've seen it, but still don't believe it.....'
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2005, 03:59 (Ref:1202695)   #34
kmchow
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location:
Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Posts: 3,919
kmchow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Tourer
Dynamics did a great job with their Nissan in '99 and had a close relationship with Nissan. TD's car was one of the few recent (year old) cars that was raced against works cars.
As you mentioned, TD was generally one of the few and well funded Indies to get a chance at year old Works cars.
Quote:
As for other indies, manufacturers tended not to sell their cars the following year (some didn't sell them to other teams at all during the ST era), using them for winter testing, often they formed the basis of next years car. If they did sell them it was usually to semi works teams in other series in other countries, Volvo's went to Sweden for example, so cars that came onto the market were often 2 years or more older.
Exactly, so it isn't fair to blame ST as being the cause for uneven Works and Indie performance. If more one year old cars were sold to Indies, I'm sure the competition would have been even closer during the ST years.

Quote:
There were also less volume of cars produced, teams were two car only as a rule (pre 2000). Contrast that to the number of Astra coupes there are in the BTCC..
Now with fewer championships, S2000 manufacturers are more willing to sell one year ex-Works cars to privateers.

Last edited by kmchow; 17 Jan 2005 at 04:00.
kmchow is offline  
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever...
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2005, 11:13 (Ref:1202875)   #35
BootsOntheSide
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
England
Eastbourne, England
Posts: 13,000
BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Those 7 include the WSR MGs of course, which were works cars in 2003, and were perhaps the only non-works cars to get development as the season went on. The others (I think) were the 2 Dynamics cars, the VX Junior car of Bentwood, the Synchro car, and Hughes' MG.
BootsOntheSide is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2005, 11:22 (Ref:1202882)   #36
sceptic
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,565
sceptic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They were the two WSR MGs, the Hughes MG, the Dynamics Hondas, and the GA Vauxhalls.

Bentwood was in a 2001 car with the 2003 engine.

Last edited by sceptic; 17 Jan 2005 at 11:23.
sceptic is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2005, 12:42 (Ref:1202933)   #37
Slippery
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 24
Slippery should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just going back to the salary thing...

As has been said already, Reid wasnt paid for driving, but received a payment for PR work. Plato had a base salary and received a bonus payment for each race win.... Apparently the base salary was not that great for an established name but the win bonus was in the region of £25k. Plato also struck a deal with Huffy, whereby if Huffy acted as rear gunner or gifted a win to Plato, he received a % of the win bonus.
Slippery is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2005, 21:49 (Ref:1203287)   #38
BootsOntheSide
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
England
Eastbourne, England
Posts: 13,000
BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
So that's why Plato wanted to finish 10th in race 1? Maybe he was playing to a self-interested strategy all along? Interesting stuff.

My mistake as to which teams had 2003-spec cars. GA look even more feeble now, considerig that Bentwood, Collard and Kaye all did so much more impressively.
BootsOntheSide is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2005, 23:16 (Ref:1203349)   #39
touringlegend
Race Official
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Panama
Posts: 8,947
touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Collard and Kaye had the continuity of staying with the car all season and previous years experience to fall back on - I'm afraid GA's Touring Car version of musical chairs didn't do them any favours but to keep the account book sorted.
touringlegend is online now  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2005, 01:25 (Ref:1203413)   #40
kmchow
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location:
Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Posts: 3,919
kmchow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippery
Plato also struck a deal with Huffy, whereby if Huffy acted as rear gunner or gifted a win to Plato, he received a % of the win bonus.
I thought the FIA outlawed that type of finish after Ferrari pulled that controlled finish between Schumacher and Barrichello back in '03??
kmchow is offline  
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever...
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2005, 18:17 (Ref:1203953)   #41
touringlegend
Race Official
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Panama
Posts: 8,947
touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Nothing SEAT ever employed was close to what Ferrari did at Austria that day, it was more....subtle.

Does that FIA 'law' apply outside of F1 ?
touringlegend is online now  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2005, 18:27 (Ref:1203969)   #42
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It only applies to FIA-run series.
Kicking-back is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2005, 18:28 (Ref:1203970)   #43
racingdad
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 723
racingdad has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
tactics always have been and always will be part of motorsport at every level. What Plato did was common sense - you really do need your junior team mate to help you (that's why they're called team mates) and certainly don't want or expect him to attack you as well. That is completely different to the Ferari situation where Rubino virtually had to stop to allow Schui to catch and pass him.
racingdad is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.