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Old 28 Apr 2011, 11:39 (Ref:2871126)   #1351
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So as predict 120 degree V6 and one big VTG turbo. The packaging is very impressive. It is very difficult to tell what all the tubes are for...

Lets hope for Audi that the engine is reliable, because it will probably be difficult to replace the turbo and/or the injection system.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 11:49 (Ref:2871130)   #1352
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Lets hope for Audi that the engine is reliable, because it will probably be difficult to replace the turbo and/or the injection system.
I don't think that matters much - if you're replacing a turbo during the race you're out of contention anyway, no matter how easy it is to get to.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 16:07 (Ref:2871269)   #1353
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So as predict 120 degree V6 and one big VTG turbo. The packaging is very impressive. It is very difficult to tell what all the tubes are for...

Lets hope for Audi that the engine is reliable, because it will probably be difficult to replace the turbo and/or the injection system.
Well if its a 120 v angle. and 1 turbo it would be quite easy. If you ahave 1 turbo sitting on top of the engine it seems very accessible.

Knowing they have 1 turbo theyll just bulk it up to make sure it doesnt fail.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 17:27 (Ref:2871310)   #1354
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And in the press photos, we do have some idea of the rear suspension--third spring/damper on top of the gearbox casing, orthordox pushrods opening the third spring/damper. Presumably the torsion bars/main shocks are mounted on the side of the gearbox casing, and looks very similar to the orginal 908.

However, I do wonder what the member that attaches to the transmission casing that's between the upper wishbone arms and located behind the pushrod bellcrank is. It's colored the same shade of black powdercoating as the main wishbones, but isn't one of them. Some type of locating member or linkage for the suspension?

http://www.audiworld.com/news/11/r18-engine/

Also, can the rumored Gemini like quick change gearbox be ruled out, as it seems that the suspension--from what little we can make out--is firmly attached to the gearbox casing and uses some modular system to access the internals?

Last edited by chernaudi; 28 Apr 2011 at 17:34.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 18:34 (Ref:2871383)   #1355
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
while the picture and press release is interesting to read, I think overall it ranks alongsode the revelation that the tyres are round and black, what they are doing is nothing revolutionary or mould breaking, I find the whole story rather toungue in cheek.......I also believe this single turbo route is quite likley the reason the R18 is smoking so badly, the thing has so much turbo-lag that the air demand cannot match the fuel delivery rate and the fuel doesnt burn properly, the net result being black smoke from the exhaust ......I really am interested to see what the ACO will do about it.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 18:57 (Ref:2871401)   #1356
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VTGs have virtually no turbo lag, which is why diesel engines use them, and why Audi have them on the R15 (to test the concept) and the R18 (proving the concept). They might have some lag at like idling speed and rapidly going wide open throttle at that speed, but at racing speeds, the engine response should be better than the 908, which has conventional TR30 turbos.

The reason why the R18 smokes on accelleration is because, perhaps in part, because of two engine banks and one particle filter, and definenlty because of running rich to make almost max power, just as the 908s were at the test--videos do show the Pugs smoking noticeably under similar conditions.

And you can bet that as long as the Pugs smoke and that Audi backs up the ACO's racing agenda, that ACO probably won't do much of anything, as the smoky Audi R18s and Pugs will likely pollute less than many production cars, and certianly less than some gasoline engined LMPs (namely the AMR-One!).
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:00 (Ref:2871450)   #1357
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@chernaudi: Your Audi fanboyism is clouding your judgement. In the Peugeot Sport video about the Le Mans test day, there is only one moment where a light mist of smoke is visible. However, on the Sebring test footage the R18 is smoking very badly on a number of shots; see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9e15hs_T0k#t=1m22s.

VTG is not a miracle technology that can get completely rid of turbo lag. The big turbo of the R18 has to produce 2 bar boost and feed a 3.7 liter engine, while the small turbos of the 908 only have to feed one 1.85 liter cilinder bank.

If the Peugeot engine indeed smokes very little, they may be in a position to lobby with the ACO to enforce the no smoke rule.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:19 (Ref:2871456)   #1358
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while the picture and press release is interesting to read, I think overall it ranks alongsode the revelation that the tyres are round and black, what they are doing is nothing revolutionary or mould breaking, I find the whole story rather toungue in cheek.......
In recent years it has become common practice in road cars, e.g., BMW N63/S63 and Ford 6.7 Power Stroke.
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I also believe this single turbo route is quite likley the reason the R18 is smoking so badly, the thing has so much turbo-lag that the air demand cannot match the fuel delivery rate and the fuel doesnt burn properly, the net result being black smoke from the exhaust ......I really am interested to see what the ACO will do about it.
The unburn fuel is also bad for fuel consumption. During the test day, the Audi R18 did at most 11 laps on a full fuel tank, while the 908 managed multiple 12 lap stints and during the safety car simulation even 13 laps on one tank.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:29 (Ref:2871464)   #1359
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Last year both the 908 HDI and R15 were smoking at parts of the circuit, so unless Peugeot lobbies to the ACO, I doubt anything will be done. Personally I just want to see these guys battle it out, I am on no side, I dont give a damn who wins out of the 2, just how good the quality of the race is. What should be interesting is if wet weather plays a major role in this years 24 Hours.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:34 (Ref:2871466)   #1360
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@chernaudi: Your Audi fanboyism is clouding your judgement. In the Peugeot Sport video about the Le Mans test day, there is only one moment where a light mist of smoke is visible. However, on the Sebring test footage the R18 is smoking very badly on a number of shots; see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9e15hs_T0k#t=1m22s.

VTG is not a miracle technology that can get completely rid of turbo lag. The big turbo of the R18 has to produce 2 bar boost and feed a 3.7 liter engine, while the small turbos of the 908 only have to feed one 1.85 liter cilinder bank.

If the Peugeot engine indeed smokes very little, they may be in a position to lobby with the ACO to enforce the no smoke rule.
There's a video on You Tube where the 908 smoked badly too, at 5:12 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h5-028d344

That's as bad as anything I've seen the R18 do in similar videos posted, and I doubt that is was isolated there, and at least one other person here said that at wide open throttle, the 908 smoked worse than the R18 down the Mulsanne.

I don't believe with their "all power" mentality that Peugeot will play the hypocrite game, but they've whined before when they couldn't/wouldn't copy something that Audi did that they thought was an advantage.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:37 (Ref:2871468)   #1361
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In recent years it has become common practice in road cars, e.g., BMW N63/S63 and Ford 6.7 Power Stroke.
The unburn fuel is also bad for fuel consumption. During the test day, the Audi R18 did at most 11 laps on a full fuel tank, while the 908 managed multiple 12 lap stints and during the safety car simulation even 13 laps on one tank.
Neither team showed their hand in terms of fuel mileage.
1. ask yourself what mileage they got last year. (11-13 laps)

2.now what happened with the regs ( they have smaller engines and less horsepower)

3. theyll probably get 14-16 lap mileage this year
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:39 (Ref:2871472)   #1362
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There's a video on You Tube where the 908 smoked badly too, at 5:12 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h5-028d344
5:12? Sorry, I can't see it. Is that the right place?
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:41 (Ref:2871474)   #1363
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5:12? Sorry, I can't see it. Is that the right place?
The quality of that video is way too crappy. I don't see any smoke either.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:42 (Ref:2871476)   #1364
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The peugeot has been smoking normally since back in 2008.I remember posting a thread about it back in 2008 and no one seemed to comment.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:46 (Ref:2871478)   #1365
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Neither team showed their hand in terms of fuel mileage.
1. ask yourself what mileage they got last year. (11-13 laps)

2.now what happened with the regs ( they have smaller engines and less horsepower)

3. theyll probably get 14-16 lap mileage this year
Except the tank size has been reduced to 65l (from 81l) for the diesels. 90l to 75l for petrol.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:46 (Ref:2871479)   #1366
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Except the tank size has been reduced to 65l (from 81l) for the diesels. 90l to 75l for petrol.
That is a 20% reduction.The engine power was reduced with a similar amount from say 750 to 600 bhp.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:50 (Ref:2871482)   #1367
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The peugeot has been smoking normally since back in 2008.I remember posting a thread about it back in 2008 and no one seemed to comment.
I have no agenda, or first hand experience, but it does seem the Audi is smoking more. At the moment I don't have any desire for action to be taken. Although some posts are making me think it would be funny to see a protest
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:52 (Ref:2871485)   #1368
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Except the tank size has been reduced to 65l (from 81l) for the diesels. 90l to 75l for petrol.
good call. well then 11-13 it is.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:52 (Ref:2871486)   #1369
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The peugeot has been smoking normally since back in 2008.I remember posting a thread about it back in 2008 and no one seemed to comment.
That is the past. Some people reported that the new 908 almost did not smoke. So either they have solved the problem, or they did not run with the rich engine mapping (which they traditionally used in qualifying and last year when chasing the Audis, just before the engines blew).
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:54 (Ref:2871488)   #1370
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good call. well then 11-13 it is.
Exactly. So I doubt there was any sandbagging regarding fuel mileage going on during the test day.
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:54 (Ref:2871490)   #1371
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5:12? Sorry, I can't see it. Is that the right place?
i see it...
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:55 (Ref:2871491)   #1372
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That is the past. Some people reported that the new 908 almost did not smoke. So either they have solved the problem, or they did not run with the rich engine mapping (which they traditionally used in qualifying and last year when chasing the Audis, just before the engines blew).
not true
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 20:56 (Ref:2871492)   #1373
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5:12? Sorry, I can't see it. Is that the right place?
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The quality of that video is way too crappy. I don't see any smoke either.
keep in mind that the tailpipes are under the rear wing not on the sidepods like last year. look right there. its obvious and that a lot of smoke
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 21:06 (Ref:2871494)   #1374
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The quality of that video is way too crappy. I don't see any smoke either.
The smoke puffs are clearly being ejected out the exhaust after the 908 rounds the corner and straightens out. And it definently doesn't seem to be coming out from under the diffuser (bottoming out on the skid/rub strips), but rather over the rear deck, and hence, likely from the exhaust exits.

Or if a sound cue is more desireable, listen for the brief moment that the revs rise (after the noise made by the tires going over the curbs). It seemed to smoke when going from low to wide open throttle.

When one considers that the 908s started to run 3:27s or whereabouts in short spirts, they probably cranked up the power late in the second session, and, only judging because I wasn't there, it seemed that it was late in the afternoon at LM when that video was taken, since it takes a while in the afternoon for the sun to set (Le Mans being fairly far north, meaning a late sunset).

And besides, diesels shouldn't have excess fuel on overrun, shouldn't the? Then again, Audi said that, back in 2006...
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Old 28 Apr 2011, 21:06 (Ref:2871496)   #1375
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I replayed the video numerous times and I still don't see it. Either it is my eyes or my computer screen... Are you sure it is not the track or the shadow of the car?
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