Dunlop race package (merged)

[Ian Sowman]

What do people think of the story in MN today that suggests Dunlop are putting together a third national racing package (to add to the existing TOCA and F3/GT packages)?

The story says that the proposed package will be topped by Britcar, with Radicals (both Enduro and Biduro flavour), Minis (Miglia and Se7en) and Ginettas - plus, possibly, Top Hat and Cloth Cap historic races.

Is this something that people would pay to go and watch? I'm not sure I would. Much as I love the Minis and Ginettas, the other categories mentioned don't do an awful lot for me. Others may have different views.

And what about packages generally? I feel that they have taken away good quality national racing away from the smaller circuits. In the pre-TOCA days, Mallory Park would have hosted, for example, Formula Renault and Clios - and there is no reason why the smaller tracks could not still host 'secondary' national championships. But for the fact that they all run on a major package with something (BTCC, F3) that would not visit those circuits...

[Les]

when I first heard of this I expected it to be the support package for the BTCC not an extra series.

[R59]

We've had this discussion before, what's Ian's favourite, isn't mine, and so on and so forth.

Championship packages should only be created where the racing interests the spectators (most of them) and puts bums on seats.

Barry Lee spoke about the HotRod revival, and how it was an entertainment, and that's what all motorsport is about. Lots of our race series are far from entertaining, some because there is too much of a discrepancy between the pace of cars, or because the cars are droning boring processional heaps.

More people go to one HotRod meeting than there are at most circuits at the weekend if you added them all together (SCSA and BTCC excepted)

Why? Entertainment - that's why.

I hate to say it, even though I have ambitions to race in Britcar, I don't think that it's the kind or series that currently fills the grandstands. With a big marketing budget, and targeting that marketing, that may change.

Mini Se7ens and Miglias are very entertaing, but Mini racing doesn't stir the hearts of the wavering viewing public who are not sure about going to watch racing. The die-hard Mini enthusiast will go to the ends of the earth to watch a mini race, but that doesn't fill grandstands either.

What is clear - the F5000's, Can-Am cars, etc.. at Brands the other weekend were awesome, and filled the grandstands. Doesn't that tell you something.

I bet if we had a grid of Aussie Supercars, the grandstands would be full too.

If SCSA took their circus to the road courses.....

OK so I'm biased. Buy you know that I AM right.

[Snapper Baz]

Hmmm...Racing 59, the stands at Brands may have been full for the F5000 etc but surely that was due to MN's huge advertising campaign week in week out on the meeting and nothing else (forgive me if that wasn't the MN meeting!). If an ad' for Can-Am and F5000 was launched just for those races you wouldn't have had even half of the number that turned out.
I think the Britcar series is great as a media person and follow it virtually everywhere but if I was a paying spectator I'm not sure if I'd be as keen to see every meeting...and if the Radical's were there as well I'd probably stay at home and mow the lawn or something!!
What these sort of meetings MUST remember is that they need marshals to be able to run a meeting. If a marshall see's a meeting that he or she thinks maybe boring to them then they will go to a meeting that will offer them (and also the spectator) good value and plenty of excitement-this sort of meeting will be treading on thin ice in this respect I think. Those who know me know I love my Mini racing but I don't think this sort of meeting will do them any favours either. As somebody who worked in marketing for many years I'd say this was going to be a big loser all round as it would interest very few other than the drivers themselves.

[Stevespurr]

Its alright having all the endurance cars under one package but who is going to MARSHAL it?

[Woolley]

From a marshalling point of view, I'd like to ask a simple questions.

Is this going to increase the number of meetings held over the year, or by pulling some series together will it decrease the overall total?

The biggest problem at the moment in attracting marshals is that there are fewer than ever, and an increasing number of meetings. If this goes some way towards reducing them (and if it can make for more entertaining, better subscribed races - note marshals generally like Mini racing) then it's a good thing. If it is going to add to the number of meetings, then it's not.

Spectator value is a moot point. There's no real problem in running meetings for the benefit of drivers. Their fees pay for the meeting, there aren't that many spectators anyway, and if Dunlop are selling tyres to the competitors, then they're going to get a return on their investment even without the extra publicity in the specialist mags.

[Ian Sowman]

I don't see why it would increase the number of meetings - it isn't as if any more championships are being created.

[pitcrew]

by compiling championships it would decrease the number off meetings and maybe increase the spectator numbers, this country really needs to work on advertising events too theres a big problem that people just done realise events are running unless there like us lot lol

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Stevespurr

Its alright having all the endurance cars under one package but who is going to MARSHAL it?

After last Saturday's Britcar fiasco at Oulton, not me; add Radical enduro/biduro to that & you have a new definition of boredom! Top Hat is one of the best packages around - it ain't broke, let's not fix it!

[Joyce George]

I have no problem with a new package. they have worked well before-remember the old Best of British package? That was run under the Dunlop banner if I remember correctly. However, it should not be allowed anywhere near a circuit unless they can guantee full grids, and a lot of circuit promotion. Full grids & close racing put bums on seats. e.g 750 MC

[Peter Mallett]

Dunlop also sponsor the CTCRC packages or are they moving away from that? If so I can see those championships going free on tyres and that wouldn't be good.

As Dave says, Top Hat is a great package that provides entertainment to many, not only the entrants. If Dunlop were to do this then it would need full two day meetings to cope with the number of championships.

The idea is good but with the number of "endurance" races proposed it could get a bit tedious for all concerned.

[Andrew Kitson]

From a spectator point of view, last thing we need is another package!
IMO, in an ideal world, there should be just one package, 12 rounds per season ( x2 races) - for the professional classes and promoted as 'THE' British Championship Motor Racing tour. F3, GT & BTCC (with cleaner driving!) as the core. F.Ren, FF & F.BMW take turns at supporting as do Porsches, SEATs, Clios, plus a couple of guest slots, different at each meeting such as Minis, BRDC Historics, FPA, Ginetta, etc etc even SCSA.
When not supporting, these other categories can then add variety to the rest of the UK race programme. Get F.Ren, FF and F.BMW on tracks such as Mallory, Rockingham and Cadwell. The drivers will benefit, learning all sorts of circuit.

3 day meetings, (they all test on the Friday anyway) so qualifying on this day, one race each Sat with some qualifying first thing for the guest series. Full day of racing Sunday although BTCC has two races Sunday (plus one Sat).

Add in some demos, in the lunch break and 3 lap runs between races, e.g 'modernish' F1 cars like at 'See Red' (doughnuts?), famous historic GP cars (& drivers?), Group C, even bikes, monster trucks or dragster burnouts. It works wonders at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. Keep the kids happy.

Stop the package becoming stale. How hard it must be, to convince the casual spectator, the wife and kids to go along to a Toca meeting, to see exactly the same cars and format as 2 weeks or 2 months previously?

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

In the pre-TOCA days, Mallory Park would have hosted, for example, Formula Renault and Clios ...

I must be older than you Ian - I remember very well Aurora F1, F5000, F2, F3, BTCC at Mallory. F3 was usually 2 or 3 heats, then a final.
Could not happen today - noise.

[Ian Sowman]

Yes, you certainly are older than me Andrew Although of course I am aware of the great events Mallory held in the past. The thing is, the events you mention there are unlikely to come to Mallory now (although rumours of a non-championship BTCC race persist), whereas the leading 'second-tier' series could.

I have to agree with your proposal, Andrew. It's rather good.

[andy97]

Somebody put Andrew Kitson in charge.

[Andrew Kitson]

Further to my package 'dream', they should also do as Brands did in the 80s. Get a national newspaper well and truely behind it. Bring a voucher from the paper the day before, then at the gate 'buy one get one free', two adults in, one pays.
The 'Sun' free days at Brands had 30,000 crowds for a clubbie, air displays, demos, great racing ( Minis again...) etc etc and coverage in the paper on the Monday morning. For sure many of those 'free' racing virgins went again and paid on the gate.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

3 day meetings, (they all test on the Friday anyway) so qualifying on this day, one race each Sat with some qualifying first thing for the guest series. Full day of racing Sunday although BTCC has two races Sunday (plus one Sat).

That's not really practical. Practice days are covered by the minimum number of marshals, supplied (& paid) by the circuit owners. Make it a qualifying day & you'd need full, volunteer, marshal cover. Many people just can't take so many days off work, or afford the cost of marshalling at a large number of three-day meetings. There's also the problem of the limitations on circuit use. Circuits are only allowed, as part of their planning permission, so many 'race' days per year. A 'practice' day, run by the club organising the race meeting & open to the public, is counted as a 'race' day.

Add in some demos, in the lunch break

Within reason, but don't forget that at many circuits marshals need to drive round the track to do such frivolous things as buy food, drink, etc., or even just to get to a toilet!

and 3 lap runs between races,

Next time you're at a race meeting take a look at what's happening between races. Recoveries, dressing oil spills, repairing barriers, etc., etc. Having 'demonstrations' between races wouldn't use up 'dead' time, it would incease the gaps between races. Now, if you really want to keep things moving, stop all the time wasted on the grid at the big meetings. Does all that wandering about on the grid 'interviewing' drivers &, even worse 'celebrities' really add any value to the racing?

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Now, if you really want to keep things moving, stop all the time wasted on the grid at the big meetings. Does all that wandering about on the grid 'interviewing' drivers &, even worse 'celebrities' really add any value to the racing?

I agree entirely Dave. All UK race meetings should have involvement from all of the drivers, to spend the duration of just one race ( other than their own of course) on the bank assisting the marshals. Novice drivers can do this already to gain signatures? Not only will they learn what the flag signals mean ( the BTCC lot ), they will also have something to do. All that time sitting around, having a massage in the motorhomes, talking BS when they could be doing something practical and god forbid may even enjoy it!
With cover this would then allow the marshals to have a break for a pee, get a sandwich or a drink etc.

[DriversKnow]

It is interesting to see that this story has provoked a lively debate. It would be wrong for Dunlop to comment in detail on this story at the moment.

What we can say, is that since Dunlop became involved as BTCC sponsor this year, we have realised that some of the marketing support techniques that we have used in BTCC could be used very effectively in other championships that partner with Dunlop.
Motorsport is at the heart of the Dunlop brand, whether on 2 wheels or 4, and we are always looking for ways to partner with our championships to mutual benefit. It is interesting to read your feedback and ideas as we put together our 2006 plans.

James Bailey
Dunlop

[R59]

You'd swing us all over if you gave us free tyres....!! (sniggers)

[DriversKnow]

Press Release
7th September 2005




Dunlop launch ‘Great and British’ racing festivals



Dunlop are to make a major investment in UK motorsport by introducing ‘Great and British’ Dunlop Motorsport Festivals for the 2006 season.

The weekend events are to be backed by a major marketing programme to broaden the appeal of national motorsport and introduce new spectators to the sport, and will feature a number of leading UK championships, racing at top line circuits.

The final list of championships that are part of this package will be announced shortly, but four of the UK’s biggest racing championships, the John Cooper Mini Challenge, Radical Enduro and Radical BiDuro Championships, and Avo Ginetta Championship have already signalled their commitment to the package, which is backed by the British Automobile Racing Club. (BARC).

Dunlop Motorsport Manager, Gary Wassell stated: “Dunlop have increased their commitment to UK motorsport this year with the title sponsorship of the Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship. The ‘Great and British’ Dunlop Motorsport Festivals will play an active role in our marketing strategy, complement our existing UK motorsports activities from the BTCC to Dunlop Race Academy at grass roots level, and will take national motorsport to a new audience and provide entertainment for the whole family.

Further information on the package will be unveiled during the coming weeks, including details of the heavyweight promotional support that is planned for the 2006 season.



Additional Comment:

James Bailey, Head of Corporate Communications for Dunlop’s parent company, Goodyear Dunlop Group, confirmed the intention to invest: “Motorsport is key to reinforcing Dunlop’s position as the drivers brand. The Festivals will complement our BTCC involvement and will play an integrated role in our promotion of Dunlop. We are making a six figure commitment to national motorsport with this package and are confident that we can work with our partners to provide an entertaining, premium and high-value day out for all the family.

We have a truly exciting and innovative marketing plan for these events, which will give unparalleled access to the action for spectators, and unrivalled value for drivers and teams. Our entire marketing strategy for Dunlop is based around the passion of driving, and we are delighted to work with a group of partners that share the same

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

What do people think of the story in MN today that suggests Dunlop are putting together a third national racing package (to add to the existing TOCA and F3/GT packages)?

The story says that the proposed package will be topped by Britcar, with Radicals (both Enduro and Biduro flavour), Minis (Miglia and Se7en) and Ginettas - plus, possibly, Top Hat and Cloth Cap historic races.

That package is really top-class clubbie racing. I would enjoy it a lot; particularly if it had the Historics boys.

On the whole I'd prefer it to most of the BTCC package - I don't like FBMW, the SEAT cup is tedious, the Porsches are fantastic cars but the racing's pretty tame, and the Clio boys are hooligans too often -- it's really the BTCC itself and the Renaults that entertain most.

GTs are my favourite series in Britain at the moment but it seems more and more teams are defecting to Britcar, and F3 fails to appeal to me these days...

Wot no Britsports though?

This package seems aimed far more at the hardcore enthusiast than the TOCA or F3/GT ones.

[archibold]

I'd be surprised if Britsports was anywhere but with Britcar/Production S1 next year. It makes a nice "single day" of racing for the competitor with none of this 3 day long malarky (test on Firday/Qualify Saturday/Race Sunday) is just too much time 10-12 times a year....

[Ian Sowman]

As has been stated, the Dunlop Mini challenges and Britcar do not feature in the plans for the package.

[R59]

I'm just watching the Ginetta's on Motors TV (Rockingham)

What can i say.

Pants.

Not close enough to entertain.

Looking at the crowd - what crowd. More people on (and at the side of - in orange) the track, than in the Grandstands.

I agree with Ian, GT's if they can get it back to how it used to be, and not the Porsche 996 GT3 Cup (with some other cars to make up numbers). When Stephan Ratel took it over, I expected it to boom and get bigger. Instead, it's shrunk.

We still need a modified saloon series, like Thundersaloons to tickle the fancies of the spectators, but with reasonable restrictions to stop it going completely bonkers.

And in this age of £1/litre pump fuel - we need alternative fuels (Bio-Ethanol) NOW.

Rob.