F3 Silverstone

[Richard B]

Since nobody else has started a thread and since I started the Donnington and Snet' threads thought I'd better start this one too....
This weekend sees F3's 2nd visit to Silverstone and since none of my predictions have proved accurate so far this year I'll continue the trend and go for a win by Max Chilton.

[sauber11]

Ricciardo: “We’re now entering a phase where you already have to use tactics in the race a little bit. The advantage seems enormous, but it could effectively be gone with two retirements. This means that I really don’t have to risk it all, on the other hand I’ll continue to look for success.”

My money on Buzaid and Ricciardo to win the race 1 and 2.

[N.A-D.R]

My money is on Ricciardo to win both races. But it might be close with Buzaid and Van der Zande too.

[strider]

A couple of links for people:

The results of today's practice sessions are here. You click on the .pdf logo on the right to open that. Ricciardo was fastest from van der Zande and Chilton.

Timing for the weekend is here. You click on the Live Timing button to get that.

There's a complete timetable in .pdf format on that page if you want one, but the F3 times are:

Saturday
11:50 to 12:20 Qualifying 1
14:55 to 15:25 Qualifying 2

Sunday
10:00 to 10:30 Race 1
13:05 to 13:35 Race 2

The reason for both F3 races being before lunch is that there is 2-hour GT race in the afternoon, so that's been given pride of place. Naturally.

[Morris Dancer]

Do you know if there's a reason for Friday official lap times for all sessions (not just F3/GT) not being freely available? I hear that anyone wanting this info has to pay quite a lot of money (25 quid?) for each car's times in each session!

Here in Australia, Friday official times have been available freely to everyone for decades, yet it doesn't seem to be the case in the UK.

[strider]

Practice report here and times:

Pos Driver                   Team               Car            Time
 1. Daniel Ricciardo         Carlin             D/V       1m14.470s
 2. Max Chilton              Carlin             D/V       1m14.635s
 3. Renger van der Zande     Hitech             D/M       1m14.686s
 4. Carlos Huertas           Double R           D/M       1m14.837s
 5. Adriano Buzaid           T-Sport            D/V       1m15.059s
 6. Daisuke Nakajima         Double R           D/M       1m15.329s
 7. Wayne Boyd               T-Sport            D/V       1m15.336s
 8. Riki Christodoulou       Fortec             D/M       1m15.427s
 9. Walter Grubmuller        Hitech             D/M       1m15.488s
10. Philip Major             Carlin             D/V       1m15.553s
11. Henry Arundel            Carlin             D/V       1m15.676s
12. Hywel Lloyd              CF Racing          D/H       1m15.834s
13. Gabriel Dias             T-Sport            D/H       1m15.935s
14. Daniel McKenzie          Fortec             D/H       1m16.037s
15. Victor Garcia            Fortec             D/M       1m16.141s
16. Jay Bridger              Litespeed          M/H       1m16.857s
17. Stephane Richelmi        Barazi Epsilon     D/M       1m17.127s
18. Michele Faccin           West-Tec           D/H       1m17.332s
19. Kevin Chen               Double R           D/M       1m18.168s
20. Max Snegirev             West-Tec           D/H       1m18.475s
21. Victor Correa            Litespeed          S/H       1m19.042s
22. Satrio Hermanto          Litespeed          S/H       1m19.277s

[strider]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

Do you know if there's a reason for Friday official lap times for all sessions (not just F3/GT) not being freely available? I hear that anyone wanting this info has to pay quite a lot of money (25 quid?) for each car's times in each session!

Here in Australia, Friday official times have been available freely to everyone for decades, yet it doesn't seem to be the case in the UK.

Yes and no to that one.

The Friday practice sessions are not part of the meeting, so SRO won't pay the timekeepers. When BF3 races in Europe the Friday practice sessions are part of the meeting, so everything's included and it's all nice and simple.

In the UK, if a series, say British F3, wants live timing, both down the pit lane on the monitors and on the 'net, they have to pay the timekeepers for the service. At the moment only BF3 and BGT do that. Actually I have an idea that SRO pays for BGT, but they would, wouldn't they?

If another series, say Formula Ford, wanted the same service they would simply have to get themselves organised and pay the timekeepers. It's not difficult.

[Morris Dancer]

Why don't the promotors simply pay the timekeepers to provide a full timing service on Friday, and aportion the cost across the entire entry list? It's what happens on Saturday and Sunday, and Friday testing is an accepted part of any national race meeting. There's no valid reason to force individuals or their category organisations to fork out for a service that should be available 'free' to everyone (including the media and racefans).

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

Why don't the promotors simply pay the timekeepers to provide a full timing service on Friday, and aportion the cost across the entire entry list? It's what happens on Saturday and Sunday, and Friday testing is an accepted part of any national race meeting. There's no valid reason to force individuals or their category organisations to fork out for a service that should be available 'free' to everyone (including the media and racefans).

I guess the problem with that is not teams may wish to pay for live timing on the net and on screens in the pit wall. As such getting agreement for higher entry fees may be somewhat tricky. Friday testing (or indeed any other day) does not form part of the meeting and as such does not fall under the auspices of the MSA or is generally promoted.

[gomick]

Ricciardo gets pole for race 1 from Chilton, van der Zande & Grubmuller...

[N.A-D.R]

Good on him! I think he will grab pole for race 2 aswell, might be a clean sweep this weekend for him, which would be really good for his championship.

[Morris Dancer]

I'm not saying that your explanation is wrong, Kipper, it's just that in 2009 Friday testing is an integral part of most major race meetings. Surely spreading the cost of employing the timekeepers on Friday would add little to the entry fee, and provide all entrants (as well as the media and spectators) with accurate information leading into the race weekend.

Australia's being doing this for decades, so it's high time for pommie promoters to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st Century.

But that isn't all. Silverstone wastes almost a full precious hour on Sunday with a 15-minute mid-morning halt for "Church Bells" and 40 minutes for "Lunch"!

Maybe that's the real reason why Bernie wanted to give 'em the flick ...

[bella]

you think they have church break on sunday just for the hell of it? the silverstone residents are very tolerant considering, and the hours lunch is largely for the benefit of the marshals not for the circuit. it's not the circuit's fault there's not enough track action to fill the day.

i tell you what, you try and get the teams to pay more for the already extortionate entry fee to have additional timing and see what response you get.

[alias99]

Based on the figures given, it would cost approx 250GBP for the whole year for friday timing and to be honest if the drivers were given the choice im sure they wouldnt mind paying 250 over the year or 500 if its 25 per session for accurate timing when budgets are in the 80k+ region but i think the championship organises should subsides that as its more professional but then thats my opinion if they dont have it the teams dont want it so its their choice!

Riccardo should take race 1 and all he has to do is hold of Grubmuller and that should do it for the weekend although id imagine hes gonna go for both wins. Only time will tell

[grantp]

There is a PDF of the Friday testing times on the TSL web site. Is that adequate or is Live Timing the issue?

Testing is separate from the Weekend event timing on the menu.

[gomick]

Daisuke Nakajima gets his 1st career pole for race 2 - is he a trusted safe driver amongst his peers or is he crazy Japanese kamikaze?

[runshaw]

He doesn't seem like his brother, he has picked up points in most of his races so far, more of a consistent style than kamikaze! Although his dad said he thinks he is quicker than Kazuki, yet to be seen.

[gomick]

Daniel Ricciardo wins race 1 from Walter Grubmuller & Renger van der Zande by just on 10 seconds... Grubmuller & van der Zande crossed the line together - team orders again

[strider]

Race 1 report and results:

Pos Driver                 Team            Car      Time/Gap
 1. Daniel Ricciardo       Carlin          D/V    29m08.610s
 2. Walter Grubmuller      Hitech          D/M       +9.849s
 3. Renger van der Zande   Hitech          D/M      +10.986s
 4. Max Chilton            Carlin          D/V      +11.843s
 5. Henry Arundel          Carlin          D/V      +20.964s
 6. Carlos Huertas         Double R        D/M      +21.412s
 7. Wayne Boyd             T-Sport         D/V      +24.433s
 8. Riki Christodoulou     Fortec          D/M      +25.912s
 9. Daisuke Nakajima       Double R        D/M      +26.689s
10. Adriano Buzaid         T-Sport         D/V      +27.812s
11. Gabriel Dias           T-Sport         D/H      +37.358s
12. Victor Garcia          Fortec          D/M      +38.729s
13. Jay Bridger            Litespeed       M/M      +39.305s
14. Daniel McKenzie        Fortec          D/H      +50.252s
15. Stephane Richelmi      Barazi Epsilon  D/M    +1m13.910s
16. Victor Correa          Litespeed       S/H        +1 lap
17. Kevin Chen             Double R        D/M        +1 lap
18. Michele Faccin         West-Tec        D/H        +1 lap
19. Satrio Hermanto        Litespeed       S/H        +1 lap
20. Maxim Snegirev         West-Tec        D/H        +1 lap

Retirements

    Philip Major           Carlin          D/V        4 laps
    Hywel Lloyd            CF              D/H        4 laps

Ricciardo also took fastest lap so it was a clean sweep for him - Pole position, race win and fastest lap.

Pretty boring race, tbh, apart from wondering when van der Zande and Grubmuller were going to do the two-step shuffle as Chilton was quite close.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Since nobody else has started a thread and since I started the Donington and Snet' threads thought I'd better start this one too....
This weekend sees F3's 2nd visit to Silverstone and since none of my predictions have proved accurate so far this year I'll continue the trend and go for a win by Max Chilton.

It's a good idea to start the threads, Richard B. but after that you have to keep topping them up with information.

It's a shame there is less interest in BF3 this year. Race 2 was much better with genuine racing. I was there and it was as good an F3 race as you'll get at Silverstone, with proper overtaking. You can find a couple of reports here and here.

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Morris Dancer

Silverstone wastes almost a full precious hour on Sunday with a 15-minute mid-morning halt for "Church Bells" and 40 minutes for "Lunch"!

Maybe that's the real reason why Bernie wanted to give 'em the flick ...

That's just ridiculous-there's far more dead track time at a GP than any club meeting at Silverstone-or any other circuit!

The church break allows Silverstone to start racing earlier on a Sunday than most other uk circuits-plus last weekend it gave us a chance to pay respect to a long serving marshal, Sally Hingston, who was tragically killed a few days earlier.

As for the lunch break - marshals have to be at the circuit from about 7.30-8.00am so I think we deserve a 40 minute lunch! And we very rarely get the full time as any hold ups in the timetable are made up for in this break. I think we got 30 mins last Saturday & Sunday. Just remember, without marshals there is no racing.

Strider, you were right about the 2nd F3 race-an absolute corker, one of the best I've seen for a long time. I thought Chilton was going to get his first win, until his coming together with Nakajyma (he actually arrived at our marshals postin the air but managed to carry on!)

[Andy 308GTB]

Originally Posted by arnage arnie

Strider, you were right about the 2nd F3 race-an absolute corker, one of the best I've seen for a long time. I thought Chilton was going to get his first win, until his coming together with Nakajyma (he actually arrived at our marshals postin the air but managed to carry on!)

Just watched the races on Motors TV. The 1st race (as mentioned by Strider) was a procession but the second race was excellent.

A couple of thoughts from an old cynic...
- Ricciardo - is he a great driver or a very good driver in the best car?
- Chilton - Great at qualifying but still a way to go when racing?
- Grubmuller - I'm sure the commentator on Motors said that the Grubmuller family funds the team. Van der Zande was the quicker driver but money appears to talk when Team Orders are issued.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by Andy 308GTB

Just watched the races on Motors TV. The 1st race (as mentioned by Strider) was a procession but the second race was excellent.

A couple of thoughts from an old cynic...
- Ricciardo - is he a great driver or a very good driver in the best car?
- Chilton - Great at qualifying but still a way to go when racing?
- Grubmuller - I'm sure the commentator on Motors said that the Grubmuller family funds the team. Van der Zande was the quicker driver but money appears to talk when Team Orders are issued.

Yes, race two was a bit of a corker wasn't it? The four man battle for the lead around Luffield and Woodcote had me at the edge of my seat. The last time that happened was probably watching Tandy's win at Rockingham this year and before that, Perez at Monza last season.

At the risk of being shot down in flames, I will say this, I know people are not at all impressed with Hitech's shuffling of drivers. It is somewhat unnecessary in this category and at this level but I think it is far too easy for some of us (in previous race threads at least) to go in rant about it as if we've never seen anything like that in their lives. If Renger knows what the deal is then who are we to argue?

Even if Grubmuller (who it cannot be denied has improved considerably - his impressive defensive drive around the outside of Ricciardo for a number of corners is a case in point) was to somehow win the title due to team orders, we will all know how he got the title and wouldn't care much for it, so why work ourselves up over it?

Just shake your head and roll your eyes at how silly it all looks and leave them to it.

My two cents.

[strider]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

At the risk of being shot down in flames, I will say this, I know people are not at all impressed with Hitech's shuffling of drivers. It is somewhat unnecessary in this category and at this level but I think it is far too easy for some of us (in previous race threads at least) to go in rant about it as if we've never seen anything like that in their lives. If Renger knows what the deal is then who are we to argue?

I am not shooting you down in flames, but in what category and at what level do you think it is necessary and acceptable? In theory, it is banned in F1.

Even if Grubmuller (who it cannot be denied has improved considerably - his impressive defensive drive around the outside of Ricciardo for a number of corners is a case in point) was to somehow win the title due to team orders, we will all know how he got the title and wouldn't care much for it, so why work ourselves up over it?

Just shake your head and roll your eyes at how silly it all looks and leave them to it.

Yes, Grubmüller has improved considerably, both as a driver and as a young man, but both are due to Renger's presence in the team. If Grubmüller was to somehow win the title due to team orders, I do not see that he could take much satisfaction from it. He knows, his father knows and everyone else knows that Renger is the better driver.

One of the reasons why race two was so good was that Renger went ahead and raced without restraint because Grubmüller was too far back for him to be able to help. He overtook Chilton and he overtook Nakajima, both with brave moves around the outside. He won the race with style.

The F3 paddock has pretty much come to accept Hitech's antics. They don't like them, but it doesn't look as though they are going to stop Ricciardo winning the title and that's the important thing.

However we, as spectators have been deprived of a classic title battle between Daniel and Renger and that's a shame. My opinion (but I'm not alone).

[Taprobane]

I agree, those two could have had a really classic struggle for the title.

Oh well, everyone knows Renger is Riccardo's true rival and aren't junior formulae all about what (the right) people think of your performances anyway?