"McLaren's book of excuses has come to its last page" - Page 2

jhansen · 4 Jan 2007, 23:09 (Ref:1806686)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

There maybe some truth in that, but one of my abiding memories of 2005 is Kimi's spectacular flat-spot tyre failure whilst leading the closing stages of a GP (i forget where). So McLaren did have tyre problems just the same as other teams, their major problem however was how to keep their engines alive to the end of the race. I lost count of how many 10 place penalties their drivers had to suffer.

I believe the flat-spotted tire was driver error. But you are right about the engines. The V10 did have a tendency to go bad. Well at least the ones in Kimi's car.

At least the V8 had a better reliability record.

Teretonga · 5 Jan 2007, 01:45 (Ref:1806749)

The engine freeze actually produces a non competitive element into the championship. Given that you can't do a whole lot of engine development on the homologated engine it means a team may have to suffer for a season or two before their engine supplier can do a revamp. It actually seems so stupid and counter to everything the sport is supposed to stand for.

Perhaps if the engine in the Macca is not up to snuff that can do a deal with Honda or Renault and rebadge their engines as 'A Class'. Maybe they'd be a little more competitive.

Marbot · 5 Jan 2007, 02:53 (Ref:1806766)

The majority of the engines had to rev to well over the new 19,000 rpm limit to get maximum power.Honda managed to get maximum power at 19,500,and did it with slightly less than the permitted maximum bore and a longer stroke engine than others.So the new limit actually benefits Honda probably more than some others who took the higher rpm route.

There may be a difference in power and torque characteristics between the engines,but one would have thought that the new rev limit would increase the reliability of 'all' the engines.

Glen · 5 Jan 2007, 10:03 (Ref:1806882)

Renault's reliability "secret" was to be able for most of the time to run below their maximum engine performance because of superior chassis performance - they can run cooler and more economically more of the time and still be at the head of the field. It might be misleading to just lok at the Mercedes engine as at fault - if McLaren could find extra chassis performance they may well be able to run the engine in such as way as to make it look as good as the Renault.

The same thing may well apply to Red Bull - they are happy to have the dependable Renault motor, but if their chassis is less than exceptional they will not be able to use the engine in the same cautious way as the Renault team themselves.

climb · 5 Jan 2007, 10:41 (Ref:1806912)

Well, despite enginne freeze, I think the main point is getting the car competitive, which doesn't depend only on the engine. Let's remeber what happened to Ferrari in 2005.

Macs can be prothagonists this year if they make a competitive car: ok the engine power cannot be increased, but its reliability can.And the aeropackage too.

**Bononi** · 5 Jan 2007, 13:23 (Ref:1807427)

Yep... I would be very careful when we have these words together "Mclaren" and "radical rules changes"...

**Born Racer** · 5 Jan 2007, 21:33 (Ref:1807770)

Quote:

LH also seems to be a true racer and will not fold.

I'm rather stunned at the amount of people who think Hamilton is not ready for F1. Not ready? Pfff, give me a break. And kudos to McLaren for doing the logical, not even that brave, but logical thing for giving Hamilton his.

He's not only GP2 champion, but has been a star since his early days in karting. And that's a lot of experience. Sometimes I think there's this weird split in motorsport where people not involved in karting conveniently 'forget' how significant a grounding karting gives in terms of the majority of skills a driver will require to race cars. Top-level international karting is extremely competitive and yet people talked about Raikkonen having only run 20-odd races when he entered F1. 20-odd car races yes. Many years of crucial karting experience.

safc_fan89 · 6 Jan 2007, 19:19 (Ref:1808368)

They are trying to put him down. I back him to prove Ron correct.

Flat12-Aircool · 7 Jan 2007, 02:24 (Ref:1808632)

Quote:

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

They are trying to put him down. I back him to prove Ron correct.

I think he'll do ok but I don't expect anything great for the first 2 years at least.

Just look at Nico Rosberg, he had a great first race then afterwards was very ordinary. He was more of a danger to Mark Webber than to the winners podium!

It will take until the 2009 reg's for the Car & L.H. to be ready to win races.

safc_fan89 · 7 Jan 2007, 09:30 (Ref:1808700)

How can you say that about the car? Ferrari showed over last winter that you can easily change a not-winning car into a 9-race winning car. Just because it's Mclaren...

Marbot · 7 Jan 2007, 12:47 (Ref:1808792)

Quote:

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

Ferrari showed over last winter that you can easily change a not-winning car into a 9-race winning car.

Simply by having tyre stops again!

I don't really want to repeat how that came about.

Flat12-Aircool · 7 Jan 2007, 13:49 (Ref:1808824)

Quote:

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

How can you say that about the car? Ferrari showed over last winter that you can easily change a not-winning car into a 9-race winning car. Just because it's Mclaren...

Err, firstly there's nothing easy about building a race winning car or else everyone would be doing it.

And the ability for McLaren to do it now is hampered by not being able to improve their engine design for next season.

Knowlesy · 7 Jan 2007, 13:55 (Ref:1808835)

The Mercedes is fine, not the most powerful but it is a solid base. One of the better engines. They made some good gains in 2006.

McLarens problem, car wise, is how they manage without the geniuses that have left them for Milton Keynes...

Snrub · 7 Jan 2007, 19:01 (Ref:1808976)

I read an article explaining why JPM could never come to grips with the McLaren understeer and why Kimi was more successful. I think it was written by Peter Windsor on SpeedTV's site a while back. It may not be as tough for Alonso as people have suggested.

I just don't see McLaren being strong in 2007... I think Renault will likely have the car to beat, but I don't think they have the drivers. Ferrari has been delt a cruel blow with a number of key people leaving. I don't know that they will be strong enough despite having arguably the best driver. If Honda can get their act together and produce a 2004 caliber car (relative to the competition) I think they could do quiet nicely.

Flat12-Aircool · 7 Jan 2007, 19:32 (Ref:1809004)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

If Honda can get their act together and produce a 2004 caliber car (relative to the competition) I think they could do quiet nicely.

I totally agree, I think this year is a put-up or shut-up year for Honda. They are on the up again and Button's maiden GP victory last year can only be a plus going into this season.

I predict they will do well and provide a stronger challenge to Ferrari & Renault in the championship than McLaren can muster.

My only doubt is with Barrichello, as he's not getting any younger (are any of us?

) and certainly not getting any faster.

Teretonga · 8 Jan 2007, 01:40 (Ref:1809234)

I think Honda can win a race this year, maybe two. Renault have the car but I have grave doubts about Fisi being a winner regularly unless he has a significant tecnical advantage, and that leaves Ferrari and McLaren. mcLaren will be a race winner, at least twice, but ferrari have to be the most complete team going into the year.
So Ferrari for the constructors, then Renault, McLaren and Honda. BMW the best of the rest.
WDC?
Kimi, Massa, Fernando, Fisi, Button, Kubica, HK, Barrichello, Nick H, Lewis....with maybe a couple of interlopers (Webber, Wurz, Coulthard, Ralf, Nico -depending on how their cars stack up).

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