"Nick's (Heidfeld) chances are better than mine," - Ralf

[Knowlesy]

Yes, he is probably correct.

alonso11, your opinions are as valid as anybody else's but please try to be a bit more polite towards others.

[f1manoz]

We of the Heidfeld faith (I think that's me and EERO) will cheer on Nick to his first Grand Prix win this year.

He'll see of Kubica early on and lead BMW's charge to about... fourth overall. They are doing it all with a minimum of fuss and fanfare. Very German, but also very successful...

[Leighton Irwin]

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that neither Ralph or Trulli have what it takes to be top driver. Good yes. Odd brilliant performance but mostly lacklustre. The skill may be there but something is lacking.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by alonso11

you obviously havnt seen 99 Nurburgring and frankly , I doubt you've seen any of Ralf's early races, no person that did would talk such rubbish

1 race, thats all you can come up with

Maybe you've been watching different races to the rest of us

I will concede that in 1999 he had a good season, as for the rest of his time in F1......

[Marbot]

...........Absolutely! average.

[alonso11]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

alonso11, your opinions are as valid as anybody else's but please try to be a bit more polite towards others.

i do apologize, in the light of other posts, its safe to say my opinions on Ralf are special

anyway lets wait till he beats Trulli for the 3rd time in a row before we open a thread about how effortlesly could Trulli done the same to him

[Knowlesy]

I don't se that happening though, as I say it needs everything right in Trulli's mind. Which is unlikely and something he only ever experienced during 2004, from what I could see. He had Alonso on the ropes for a long time, quite amazing really.

Anyways, back to Ralf's comments...

[Marbot]

I think I'll echo my comments from a while ago.I hope that Toyota are still hiring a decent psychiatrist/psycologist.

[safc_fan89]

Well if Ralf was to go saying he can win races this season...we'd all laugh at him that little bit harder than we already do. So I guess he is correct in saying this.

[deejay]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

If Trulli gets it together he could destroy Ralf quite effortlessly.

Come off it, that's about the same as saying, "if Trulli were a better driver he'd be world champion".

When has Trulli ever got it together for a whole season? He's always been a good qualifier with the occasional good race. 2 or 3 strong races a year is all he seems capable of.

In that way Jarno and Ralf are very similar. They're probably the two least consistent drivers on the grid!

Ralf will be mediocre for sure, but he'll collect "solid" finishes and a point here and there more consistently.

I don't think that describes Ralf at all. He's very inconsistent, and actually a pretty poor points collector. He had some terrible no shows last season.

Good example of Ralf was Hockenheim, he was one of the fastest guys all weekend, but mishap after mishap led him to finish outside the points. If Ralf "gets it all together" though I do think he is more of a threat than Trulli, because he has on occasion shown great pace and aggression in races when Trulli hasn't his whole career.

It's just not an inspiring line-up really, if Trulli is asleep. Hopefully, he will have another 2004!

The season where he was fired by his team before the end of the year?

My memory of that year is that Jarno was qualifying better than Freddy in the early going, but that Fernando was quite clearly quicker in the races, so it made for an interesting battle. But I thought Alonso (who was still relatively the less experienced teammate at that stage) was clearly getting on top of Jarno by mid-season - in terms of pace if not points.

I think Alonso learnt a lot that season and has come on a long long way since then. In 2004 he was a guy getting in silly accidents, not the guy carmly fending off TGF. But that's besides the point.

People will start talking about Flavio sabotaging Trulli in the second half season, but that story is starting to look a little thin now that Jarno in two chances has failed to put together a season that can even beat Ralf.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by deejay

When has Trulli ever got it together for a whole season?

One of F1's great unknowns

Originally Posted by deejay

The season where he was fired by his team before the end of the year?

Could have been

[alonso11]

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

Well if Ralf was to go saying he can win races this season...we'd all laugh at him that little bit harder than we already do. So I guess he is correct in saying this.

well Ralf been on the podium 27 times , 6 times on the top of it, so i could think of funnier things than him talkin about victories (you can find threads about Heikki's WDC chances and he couldnt even win an F3 title yet)

besides, Ralf obviously doesnt think of the new car as a massive break-thru so he talks what he feels is real. Do Toyota hate it? you bet your last penny they do (they dont like Ralf and the particulary hate his ex-manager, full stop) but they know the guy is still better than Mr. Diplomatic-for-a-3-years-deal so what can they do? They help Trulli when they can but keep Ralf within the team.

[Gt_R]

In a sense, i think Ralf's right there. If i was forced to make a bet, i'd put money on Nick having a better season than Ralf, simply because i believe BMW would be able to put together a better season/car than Toyota.

Of course, it's a big unknown now. We don't know how good the BMW and Toyota are, and how things will change over the course of a season. But BMW has impressed with their systematic and relatively reasonable means of going about doing their stuff in F1 last year, and i think it will carry on.

Toyota however has been able to put me to sleep, their new car looks barely different and ancient against the sleek Renault and Ferraris, their new livery shows how little creativity the team has, their driver pairing is one of the least exciting and has reputation for under-performing and inconsistency... the only saving grace being the huge amount of dollars Toyota has to pay the bills, which may buy them just that bit of extra pace.

It's honestly time Toyota ought to deliver and be a genuine competitor. Not for 1st or 2nd, but at least a real challenger for podiums. The least they can contribute is at least to make a race out of things on the tracks, not just clocking miles so that the marketing team has something to do for their adverts.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Is there anything to suggest Toyota trail BMW at this stage?

How about that the team's name is Toyota? For them trying is the first step towards failure - Toyota should cut their losses and give up on F1.

Surely one doesn't make that kind of comment unless there has been a massive falling out or Ralf wants out of the team. The problem is, what team would want to hire him after a comment like that? He couldn't possibly be trusted to speak to anyone ever again. On top of that Williams was a long time ago, he doesn't have much of a reputation left. Perhaps now he can have that long and illustrious career he always wanted as a Toro Rosso test driver?

[Peter Ford]

he is possibly saying this because he knows he may only have only 1 or 2 years left in the series and that heldfeld will be hanging around much longer.

[chunterer]

On the contrary I can't really see much of a future for either of them beyond 2007. Ralf's well and truly been 'found out' and on face value Nick is going to have his work cut out with Kubica.

There is bound to be another huge clear out of drivers at the end of this season....

[Knowlesy]

Yes, this looks like another year where a few drivers move on before a period of (relative) stability.

[chunterer]

Potentially we could 'lose' Ralf, Fizzi (Flati?), DC, Webber, Button, Rubens, Nick, Speed, Liuzzi (assuming those two even start the season!), Albers, Sutil, possibly even one or two others. If people aren't consistently doing something of note these days then their seat isn't safe!

Of those 10 odd drivers, I would expect 5 or 6 to definitely go.

It would be shame to lose a few more name drivers but hey all (good) things come to an end.

Wonder who would be coming in to replace them though.

I guess in case of Ralf and/or Nick there's already a few decent Germans waiting in the wings like Glock, Vettel and Ammermuller?

[Spudgun]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Potentially we could 'lose' Ralf, Fizzi (Flati?), DC, Webber, Button, Rubens, Nick, Speed, Liuzzi (assuming those two even start the season!), Albers, Sutil, possibly even one or two others. If people aren't consistently doing something of note these days then their seat isn't safe!

Button???

IMO he's one of the better drivers out there and if Honda can produce a decent car he could do very well indeed.

I certainly wouldn't put him in the same boat as the rest!

Good call on the others though, but I'd like to see how Webber would do in a better car where he's not trying to over drive.

[Last2LiftOff]

"Nick's (Heidfeld) chances are better than mine," - Ralf

Gee, Ralf, I'm as shocked as you are!

[alonso11]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Potentially we could 'lose' Ralf, Fizzi (Flati?), DC, Webber, Button, Rubens, Nick, Speed, Liuzzi ?

Button? he isnt just a brilliant driver but also an incredible business value in the UK (not just for ITV) i could hardly think of something less likely to happen than him leaving F1 at the end of the year

Webber? IMHO he is just as tallented as Button and nobody really expects him to come close of getting beaten by DC, so again, him leaving is unreal

Nick? Do you really expect Kubica to beat him ? how very very naive

Ralf? no comment, but funny you leave Trulli out of the list if he gets beaten by Ralf for the 3rd time in a row, the team might just occupy him as official wine and olive supplier for the the 2 remaining years that are in his contract

Originally Posted by chunterer

I guess in case of Ralf and/or Nick there's already a few decent Germans waiting in the wings like Glock, Vettel and Ammermuller?

since when is Ammermuller decent? I must've missed that. Sven Barth is decent (unfortunetly hes budget is notoriously under-founded)

[chunterer]

Aah! alonso11 thank your interpretation of my post. I'd just like to respond to each comment.

1/ The word 'potential'
As in drivers who could possibly be on their last legs....

2/ Button: Lots of drivers have excellent marketing appeal in their own countries, but it doesn't last forever. If Button performs then he'll stick around, if he doesn't I think it will be difficult for Honda to justify keeping him on. He will be judged the same as Rubens.

3/ Webber: I think he is a very good driver but unless he has a good season and gets lots of points, he may never get a truly topline opportunity.

4/ Nick: Yes, If BMW do well and Kubica does beat him then Nick could well be dropped. If he doesn't then Nick will have done well.

5/ Ralf: There's nothing between the two Toyota drivers! Trulli got the longer contract so they would have to pay him off.

6/ Ammermuller is a Red Bull favourite and assuming he has a good second year in GP2 then he's destined to get promoted to RBR or STR.

Finally re drivers who lack budgets, there's nothing new in this is there? It's up to those who have the backing to make the most of their opportunities. The 3 German drivers I have mentioned look like they are doing just that.

I look forward to your continuing contributions and debating them with you.

[alonso11]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I look forward to your continuing contributions and debating them with you.

lol, cheers mate, but thats it for now, gotta give granny a lift to the tescos

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by alonso11

Nick? Do you really expect Kubica to beat him ? how very very naive

Ha ha let's see come the end of the season