"One of the most significant announcements in the history of the sport..."

[racer69]

Originally Posted by peckstar

racer , take a look at the top levels of motorsport throughout the world, they are not production cars

What have other series in the world got to do with this topic of conversation? Apart from a few years with Group A, Australia has generally paved its own path anyway...

Originally Posted by Mixer

Both Bergmann and Watson's fatal accidents at Bathurst are an example of production based machinery being well outside its safety zone.

I would have thought the nature of those two accidents, given the sudden stops from high speed in both cases, had as much, if not more, to do with the location of solid objects than the shell of the car. Would the outcomes of either accident have been different in one of todays cars?

Originally Posted by Mixer

A production car may well be acceptable for an Improved Production car because they don't race every weekend and they don't do very long races, ergo the risk is reasonably low.

However if you're a professional series and you race week in week out and for longer events, your risk rises.

Are you serious? Basing how 'safe' you build a car on how often it is raced?

I could race an Improved Production car somewhere in Australia almost any weekend of the year if i wanted to. I could race it in short races like at Bathurst last weekend, I could race in the Wakefield 300km enduro which is coming up, in 6hr relay races etc etc... You could potentially cover more kms per year in an Improved Production car than a V8Supercar does.... what about the Production Sports guys who can run their cars in all over the place in plenty of 1hr races, not to mention tarmac rallies they can all run their cars in too

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by racer69

I would have thought the nature of those two accidents, given the sudden stops from high speed in both cases, had as much, if not more, to do with the location of solid objects than the shell of the car. Would the outcomes of either accident have been different in one of todays cars?

I think either of the Rat's accidents could be given of examples that this is the case. The cars don't fold up now like they did in the past. The 2 crashes I referenced are extreme examples.

Originally Posted by racer69

I could race an Improved Production car somewhere in Australia almost any weekend of the year if i wanted to. I could race it in short races like at Bathurst last weekend, I could race in the Wakefield 300km enduro which is coming up, in 6hr relay races etc etc... You could potentially cover more kms per year in an Improved Production car than a V8Supercar does.... what about the Production Sports guys who can run their cars in all over the place in plenty of 1hr races, not to mention tarmac rallies they can all run their cars in too

You could, and if you did so its your own liability. However if you are a large organisation overseeing 28 cars built to the same spec racing every week, things clearly have to be different. You have to be seen to mitigate risk wherever its possible.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Mixer

You could, and if you did so its your own liability. However if you are a large organisation overseeing 28 cars built to the same spec racing every week, things clearly have to be different.

The point of this whole debate dating back to david5's original thoughts on the matter, was that you wouldn't have 28 cars built to the same spec, there would be some, god forbid, variety.

Originally Posted by Mixer

You have to be seen to mitigate risk wherever its possible.

Is that therefore implying that the rulemakers of other categories are not mitigating risks?

IP had 45+ cars on the grid at Bathurst last week, and generally always attracts a good entry whenever they race... an accident is an accident whether it be at state level or V8Supercar level

Bottom line is that a car isn't any safer just because you race it less

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by peckstar

when v8 supercars began we used production shells and parts, they weighed the same as the do now, and there is minimal difference in speed.

but we have made the cars safer and cheaper to fix.

thus you theory is wrong

Can you tell me why they are safer?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Can you tell me why they are safer?

yes,m theres are lots of reasons, many which you know.

but heres the link to COTF.

COTF safety

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by peckstar

yes,m theres are lots of reasons, many which you know.

but heres the link to COTF.

COTF safety

Thanks I have seen it before. Safety and race cars Hmm? Side impact is the most feared of all crashes right or wrong? And after deaths like Mark Porter, lots of race car builders still cut out most of the safety features car manufactures spend millions if not billions of dollars developing. Road cars are built to absorb kinetic energy, Race cars don't dissipate impact energy that well. So we still lighten our doors ect why? To make our car safer? No to make it faster. Welding in some more tube in to the cage is not going make the driver all that much safer. That's not how it works, that is 1940-50s thinking, just make it stronger.

[anthony81901]

Maybe the newest manufacturer to the series will bring resurrect an old favourite, the Dato? http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/b...321-1vj19.html

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Thanks I have seen it before. Safety and race cars Hmm? Side impact is the most feared of all crashes right or wrong? And after deaths like Mark Porter, lots of race car builders still cut out most of the safety features car manufactures spend millions if not billions of dollars developing. Road cars are built to absorb kinetic energy, Race cars don't dissipate impact energy that well. So we still lighten our doors ect why? To make our car safer? No to make it faster. Welding in some more tube in to the cage is not going make the driver all that much safer. That's not how it works, that is 1940-50s thinking, just make it stronger.

Race car builders don't remove safety features. They build cars from bare shells.

Sorry mate, but you're so far off base it's not funny. Are you seriously saying a road car with airbags, SRS etc is safer than a purpose built race car with a state-of-the-art roll cage, centrally-mounted seats, fire protection, wrap-around hooped seats, harness seat belts and so much more?

And race cars do indeed dissipate energy. Race cars are built with lightweight doors because the doors offer no protection at these speeds. The protection to drivers starts at the roll cage, which is built as a protective hub around the driver.

See a car that hits a tree at 120km/h - how often do people walk away from it? They don't.

Yet a race car rarely has a solid impact at less than 120 - yet drivers almost always walk away.

[Woolley]

Quite right. Race cars are built for a totally different type of accident from a road car, so what is integral on the street is superfluous on track.

Road cars are based on the majority of incidents being fairly low speed and with the driver having minimal personal protection. In addition, the average car is unlikely to suffer a heavy shunt, so to keep prices down it's built in such a way that you accept losing the car in return for escaping serious harm.

The race car is built for someone firmly strapped in, helmeted, probably HANS these days and with a level of fire protection and assistance - both emergency and medical - available to hand. It's assumed an incident will be at high speed and it's accepted it's likely to experience several and is intended to be rebuilt afterwards, often quickly. Space frames will flex and components are designed to fail in order to dissipate energy and protect the driver. The physical shell of the car is no longer the impact absorption even in something built from a road vehicle.

[bluesport]

Some more info in the link below:

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/n...404-1wbkg.html

[bluesport]

Nissan dreams of racing but it's not a great time to start pitching a new sedan
Peter McKay
April 8, 2012

Nissan has released details of its new world car, the Altima, which in very tenuous terms forms elements of its V8 Supercars contender for 2013 and into the future.

Punters have reacted in various ways, some ticking the looks of the new model but others wondering why Nissan is bothering with a mid-sized car to sell against (and race against) Commodore and Falcon in an alarmingly shrinking market segment.

Still more web regulars have launched into tirades casting doubts about how a front-drive Altima can ever compete against the current locally made rear-wheel-drive heroes on road and track. On the racetrack, the V8 Altima will bear little in common with the production model. The shape will be customised to fit the off-the-shelf V8 supercars frame, the rear wheels will do the driving, and the engine will be from Nissan's V8 quad-cam family. But it will also have the Altima ''face'' - the grille and headlights, enough to convince plenty of consumers that it's the real deal.

Advertisement: Story continues below
Whether this significant move is too little too late - for both Nissan and V8 Supercars - remains to be judged next year when local sales of the new Nissan will be tallied, and TV ratings checked against those of the past two-make Holden and Ford-only era. TV desperately needs an interest booster after last weekend's tragic numbers for the Tasmanian round.

No doubt, though, that Nissan is putting a huge effort and investment into making the project work.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...#ixzz1rTbOTjor

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Nissan dreams of racing but it's not a great time to start pitching a new sedan
Peter McKay

I stopped reading there /\

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Nissan dreams of racing but it's not a great time to start pitching a new sedan
Peter McKay
April 8, 2012

Nissan has released details of its new world car, the Altima, which in very tenuous terms forms elements of its V8 Supercars contender for 2013 and into the future.

Punters have reacted in various ways, some ticking the looks of the new model but others wondering why Nissan is bothering with a mid-sized car to sell against (and race against) Commodore and Falcon in an alarmingly shrinking market segment.

Still more web regulars have launched into tirades casting doubts about how a front-drive Altima can ever compete against the current locally made rear-wheel-drive heroes on road and track. On the racetrack, the V8 Altima will bear little in common with the production model. The shape will be customised to fit the off-the-shelf V8 supercars frame, the rear wheels will do the driving, and the engine will be from Nissan's V8 quad-cam family. But it will also have the Altima ''face'' - the grille and headlights, enough to convince plenty of consumers that it's the real deal.

Advertisement: Story continues below
Whether this significant move is too little too late - for both Nissan and V8 Supercars - remains to be judged next year when local sales of the new Nissan will be tallied, and TV ratings checked against those of the past two-make Holden and Ford-only era. TV desperately needs an interest booster after last weekend's tragic numbers for the Tasmanian round.

No doubt, though, that Nissan is putting a huge effort and investment into making the project work.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...#ixzz1rTbOTjor

For someone supposedly in contact with the marketing bods at car makers and importers on an every day basis, this article is just pushing beyond the naive

The Nissan marketeers have said they want to use V8Supercar as a platform for growth, growth in sales and growth in image driven by success on the race track.

The Altima V8Supercar is a 'Halo' car, a device to get the Nissan nameplate in a competitive environment to show off that it is better than a Holden or a Ford (or a Kia or a Hyundai... or a Great Wall.. )... to have something to talk about.

So a Nissan dealership might have big posters on the wall of an Altima race car. And the sales person can show them off, as they do, as to the commitment by Nissan of racing improving the breed.

The whole idea of Nissan's commitment to V8Supercar seems to be around sharing new news, of opening up their brand to firstly competition on the circuit, and secondly, to unlock the vast majority of the punters who go watch live, or who watch on the teev, and dont drive a Ford or a Holden

I am fairly sure Nissan would have done their homework here, either through an expensive market research crutch, or something as simple as wandering thru the carparks at a V8Supercar meeting. Sure there are Holdens and Fords in the carpark, but plenty of Camry's and Hyundais and Utes and other brands too.

Nissan here went off the rails to some extent when they chose to dump the Pulsar nameplate, for the Tiida example. That is being fixed with the new model due later this year.

What better way to celebrate the return of Pulsar than to put a mini motor show at each of the V8Supercar rounds, to show off the cars to what is measured at several hundred thousand consumers who will see the Nissan product in an environment where they are already identifying an interest in cars.

Maybe they wont replace the FPV or HSV that keeps their blood flow in a certain area of their anatomy, but for the every day car for themselves or their partner, or their kids... a Pulsar or Micra or similar may just be on the shopping list.

That's what Nissan is planning on being the case.

Ford and Holden have kind of neglected the punter in identifying their new car range at circuit... Ford sometimes has a model lineup, but they dont have them out in the open air, for people to sit in, to look at.... Nissan will... and if the product is right, may in fact improve their foot traffic in dealerships, and product wandering out the door...

If the writer has a different marketing proposal.. that might just achieve these kinds of outcomes... maybe the bods at Nissan would like to hear it...

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

I stopped reading there /\

Lol........well did you look at this link from my last post.

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/n...404-1wbkg.html

[GTRMagic]

[Nero]

I might disagree with GTRmagic in one point, the Nissan V8 supercar is unlikely to be a 'halo' car in the full sense because they already have one in the R35 GTR. The challenge with this is that it is so far removed from their usual product line that the halo limelight is a bit weak in some demographics.

[thunderbolt]

http://www.v8supercars.com.au/champi...7/default.aspx
Rob Crawford has returned to the V8 Supercars Championship with Kelly Racing.

To be part of this growth phase of Kelly Racing and be there for the 2013 Car of the Future program with Nissan was genuinely a major motivation for my return,” said Crawford.

[Kingair]

Valid point by GTR, in relation to car companies having cars on display at race meetings. A nice captive audience of about 50,000 people over a weekend, a small percentage would have to be keen on upgrading to a newer model over the next 12 months?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Forda

Another question: will 'Crenno' be looking at rebooting the Nissan SVD operation, and potentially launching an Altima GTS?

Looks like my question has been answered; and the possibilities are being discussed:

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...407-1whnq.html

[Redzone]

so what's the go with valve actuation on the nissan supercar V8's, what are they going to use???

[madman16]

Originally Posted by Kingair

Valid point by GTR, in relation to car companies having cars on display at race meetings. A nice captive audience of about 50,000 people over a weekend, a small percentage would have to be keen on upgrading to a newer model over the next 12 months?

It already happens now..I've noticed over the last couple of years manufacturers bring more and more cars to the track.

This year at Clipsal Nissan had a GTR, 370z and Patrol on display

Holden had a Commodore, cruze, captiva there and ford had the falcon and territory there

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Redzone

so what's the go with valve actuation on the nissan supercar V8's, what are they going to use???

.........and does it have a cast iron block?

[rik]

Originally Posted by bluesport

.........and does it have a cast iron block?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine#VK56VD

Aluminium block, DOHC, 32 valve. Capacity will be reduced to make it 5.0L.

[ford71]

Originally Posted by rik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine#VK56VD

Aluminium block, DOHC, 32 valve. Capacity will be reduced to make it 5.0L.

Any idea why this isn't the block to use then?

VK50VE (5026 cc)

[Mixer]

Nismo also uses the VK56DE for FIA GT1 racing. In race trim, it produces 600 horsepower and 479 pound-feet of torque

I think that's why.