ARDS Questions

[Richy888]

Got my ARDS coming up on the 20th at Brands Hatch. Just wondering what sort of questions there are apart from the flags and what I need to revise on.

Cheers

[tristancliffe]

Flags and common sense really. The sort of question you'll get (and I'm not joking; although it is a made up question, it's quite close to the type in the test)

Your throttle pedal jams as you approach the braking zone of a corner. What do you do?

a) panic
b) undo your harness and jump out of the car
c) close your eyes
d) Switch off the engine, but the gearbox in neutral, and bring the car to a safe standstill near a marshalls post using the brakes and steering, noting that power steering may become heavier without engine assistance.


If you can get that right, and you know your Blue Book flag definitions then you'll pass the written test.

For the driving, you don't have to be fast (but you also mustn't be toooooooo slow), just make sure you don't spin (insta-fail) or do anything the instructor has told you not to. But that too is easy, and prepares you for warm-up laps.

Once a real gantry of green lights goes out you're on your own...

[BrendanM]

Originally Posted by Richy888

Got my ARDS coming up on the 20th at Brands Hatch. Just wondering what sort of questions there are apart from the flags and what I need to revise on.

Cheers

And remember the trick flag question - what is used to start the race when the Green Lights fail ?

Then the rest is mostly common sense track behaviour (pull off the line if leaking oil, obey marshals instructions, dont throw helmet at things).

When you get to your first race day (if you have not already worked this bit out) find someone to buddy up with in the series. There is lots of stuff to do in the right order and you are pretty excited so it's easy to forget. Stuff like new drivers briefings etc. I was with 2 guys at Mallory last year that had just qualified and then came to a new boys briefing with CoC
Write yourself a check list and then tape it to to the tow car window so you can read it through the day.

[jerryk]

and of course you will know that these answers are trick !
RED light going out starts the race , green flag starts the green flag lap

[Richy888]

Cheers.

Let's hope I don't fail and feel like an idiot then haha

[jerryk]

Richey its not too difficult , the more you study the less difficult it becomes .The instructor will usually run a quick refresher before the examination. The questions are very basic but you cannot afford to fail a single flag question. relax , enjoy the day, Brands is a great track

[PTRACER]

The written test is easy...it's the driving bit that's slightly difficult...at least, if you're a novice and you've never driven anything at speed before...

[PTRACER]

EDIT: Double post

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

The written test is easy...it's the driving bit that's slightly difficult...at least, if you're a novice and you've never driven anything at speed before...

Hi Guys

Sure you've heard all this before - but please help a pair of complete novices as above. I am a track marshal and my wife (fellow petrolhead) have for many years wanted a crack at driving. This year we have taken the plunge and ordered a race prepped mk1 MR2 which should be delivered in April. We are both doing our ARDS at Silverstone (my prime marshalling track) in April. We hope to run in the Red Dragon series.

I do not have an issue with the flags (being a marshal) and have taught my wife those. However, I am a bit worried about the "other" questions. It looks like they are mostly common sense (if not bordering on patronising) but are there any "trick" ones?

Also the drive - we have done three "experience" track days at Lotus (test track at Hethel) of 20 mins each - and also the Lotus "advanced" day course (braking, looking ahead, understee/oversteer, balance etc) with another 40 mins of driving. We have also done 3 Lotus Exige "experiences" at Silverstone (all with the same intructor). He has really encouraged us and treated the last two more as lessons. We both mulllered everyone out there last time - but to be fair they were bods of the street apart from two track day nuts - so I sort of guess it was going OK? Apparently my instructor says my lines are good if not excellent - but I lack a bit of confidence (especially under brakes) and my wife turns in a touch early. We did however get to the limits of the grip on the Exige. Didn't exceed them though Nina did have an "Oh sh*t" moment at Vale - but she rescued it thankfully.

Do you guys think we have done enough to make a go of passing the ARDS? or do you think we might benefit from another lesson? As we know the circuit quite well I am sort of confident, but I do not want to be complacent about it - especially as they take away the cones I believe?

Any advice gratefully taken on board.

Cheers

[PTRACER]

If you do your test on a track day (as I did), then all the cones and brake markers will be there.

All I can say is, mullering everyone else isn't what you want to be doing - an "Oh ****" moment will probably lose you points. You have to go relatively quickly (compared to road driving at least) without exceeding your own limits or the limits of the car.

If you're not all that confident with the braking (and the braking power certainly surprised me when I first drove a proper car on the track), it may be worth doing that one final lesson and concentrating on braking technique. And practice smooth, safe, but fast paced driving without squealing the tyres

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

If you do your test on a track day (as I did), then all the cones and brake markers will be there.

All I can say is, mullering everyone else isn't what you want to be doing - an "Oh ****" moment will probably lose you points. You have to go relatively quickly (compared to road driving at least) without exceeding your own limits or the limits of the car.

If you're not all that confident with the braking (and the braking power certainly surprised me when I first drove a proper car on the track), it may be worth doing that one final lesson and concentrating on braking technique. And practice smooth, safe, but fast paced driving without squealing the tyres

Hi PTRacer - thanks for the advice - we are leaning the way of an extra hour each. To be fair everyone else we were on track with were painfully slow the last time out - so any reasonable pace would have got you through the traffic. Nina's moment was a loss of sight line (she looked at the car she was overtaking rather than through the corner) but she knew instantly what she had done which was something positive - it wasn't exactly sideways just a bit leery and she caught it instantly which is a good sign I suppose.

Not a track day unfortunatly! So I suspect no helpful cones

We are doing the ARDS on same track/same car - probably even same instructor - so what I was thinking was backing off the pace he got us to go at last time - but steady and, as you say, smooth application of throttle and brakes - get the lines as near right as possible. I am sort of thinking that it is better to be slower but most definatly in control for this test?

You are right about the brakes - when the instructor took us out (him driving) I was astounded at how late he could brake and how quickly the car slowed down. This is where he explained that he could get more speed (lap time) and actually by getting us to brake much earlier he was basically controlling the pupils (us) speed and therefore safety. At the back of my mind I cannot lose the feeling that one day I'll brake and the pedal will simply hit the floor - silly I know and hopefully I'll lose that feeling over time.

Cheers

[CScott]

Originally Posted by Terrible-Tones

Hi Guys

Sure you've heard all this before - but please help a pair of complete novices as above...

Hi, well I did my ards test about 3 years ago at Silverstone and honestly the written part of it is easy, common sense will certainly get you through that especially being a marshall.

As for the driving test I found the best way was to forget about going fast, go just fast enough (the other guy on my ARDS course got pulled in by his instrucor for going faster than his skill level allowed for) It all depends on your instructor, I got racer and sometime TV presenter Rob Barff who put me at ease straight away by telling me his hiking boots (yes hiking boots) where really too big to feel and use the pedals properly (he told me this entering Stowe at about 100mph!!!) Once I has nervously laughed the fear away it was my turn to drive and it was suprising how quickly the 6 or so laps go when your concentrating. I passed, and I had no track day experience at all!

So if you manage to stay calm and try and apply commen sense to both the written and driving parts I'm sure you'll be fine.

[PTRACER]

Originally Posted by Terrible-Tones

I am sort of thinking that it is better to be slower but most definatly in control for this test?

Absolutely, but not too slow. About 70% race pace is what they say, which sounds a lot, but as long as you brake at the markers, turn in at the cones (providing they are there), then you'll find yourself going at the right pace. Also be aware of faster traffic coming up behind you and let them through when it's safe to do so - indicate, gently move the car off the racing line, lift off to about 50% throttle.

The instructor will take you round for a few laps anyway and show you what is necessary to pass the test. If there are no specific BRAKE markers, then keep an eye out where your instructor is braking for the corners. You'll probably find him braking at 50, 100 or 200 metre boards, so you'll have something to aim for either way.

You may be doing 90-100mph+ approaching the corners, but you'll probably find the instructor sitting there as calm as if he was on a quiet Sunday drive with grandma in the back. If you're calm as well, you'll find the smoothness will come pretty naturally.

[Roger Ford]

Also the drive - we have done three "experience" track days at Lotus (test track at Hethel) of 20 mins each - and also the Lotus "advanced" day course (braking, looking ahead, understee/oversteer, balance etc) with another 40 mins of driving. We have also done 3 Lotus Exige "experiences" at Silverstone

I don't think you'll have any problems at all passing the ARDS driving test with that level of experience. Many people do it with far less track time under their belts.

[tristancliffe]

You'll be 100% fine. An easy pass for you unless you do something really silly like attempt to demonstrate your oversteer car control on purpose.

[runshaw]

Is it not advised to use heel and toe on your ARDS test?

[tristancliffe]

Do whatever you feel comfortable with. If you are used to heel and toeing on strange cars immediately then fine (what I did), but if you find you need to get used to a car first or can't do it at all then don't.

You won't get extra marks or fewer marks for doing so, so long as it doesn't make you dangerous.

[JohnD]

Is everyone just stressing too much about the ARDS?
Admittedly I took it in 1994 or 5, but I had no instruction at all.
That makes me sound like the ultimate braggart - but that's not what I mean.
I mean that the exam is(was) straightforward for anyone who had watched the MSA video a few times, and the track test is(was) NOT intended to find out if you were Senna reincarnated, just that you could drive without endangering anyone else.
T-tones, I'm worried by your statement that "We both mulllered everyone out there last time". My advice would be to drive like a granny the first lap, show you are safe and then build up your speed to a reasonable level, but NOT to race anybody.

Do other people who took it more recently agree that the ARDS is not F1 race school?
John

[tristancliffe]

Yes, it's easy. If you fail it then you really shouldn't be driving home either.

[Terrible-Tones]

Originally Posted by JohnD

T-tones, I'm worried by your statement that "We both mulllered everyone out there last time". My advice would be to drive like a granny the first lap, show you are safe and then build up your speed to a reasonable level, but NOT to race anybody.John

Hi John

Hey mate I drive like a granny anyway!!

Thanks for the advice - as I have said this only happened because everyone else was pretty slow - and as we knew the circuit and the instructor appeared to have confidence in us (he has instructed us before a couple of times) he got us to gradually stretch it little by little. Still nowhere near as fast as him though!!

I think what I meant to say was really that it was probably going OK (a lot faster actually) relative to the other guys. That I was hoping that this sort of demonstrated we were probably doing OK. I have no intention of going b***s out for the ARDS. I would most certainly lose it big time and then it would be a waste + I really don't want to damage someone else's car.

We are leaning towards another lesson so I can neaten my braking and Nina can sort the turn-in a bit better. I can toe-heel in my own Lotus on the road - but being very short (5'3") and with small feet I tend to brake with my toe - not the ball of my foot. This is because the pedals are a slight stretch but if I move the seat forward in the Lotus I cannot get my arms between my (ample) gut and wheel. Therefore I am rather scared that I won't get the braking force (or worse slip off the brake) needed - so I do not plan to toe heel in the test (I have been told it is not needed for ARDS). However we hope to have the driving position well sorted in our MR2.

I think I am also worried by the written test - hoping there are no trick questions!

[PTRACER]

Well, I don't want to scare you, you may get a question like (as I did, which is rather apt) "What is the purpose of heel-and-toe?" and there'll be two answers there which it could be, UNLESS you already know exactly what the purpose of heel and toe is. That's just about the trickiest question you'll get.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Terrible-Tones

Hi John

Hey mate I drive like a granny anyway!!

Thanks for the advice - as I have said this only happened because everyone else was pretty slow - and as we knew the circuit and the instructor appeared to have confidence in us (he has instructed us before a couple of times) he got us to gradually stretch it little by little. Still nowhere near as fast as him though!!

I think what I meant to say was really that it was probably going OK (a lot faster actually) relative to the other guys. That I was hoping that this sort of demonstrated we were probably doing OK. I have no intention of going b***s out for the ARDS. I would most certainly lose it big time and then it would be a waste + I really don't want to damage someone else's car.

We are leaning towards another lesson so I can neaten my braking and Nina can sort the turn-in a bit better. I can toe-heel in my own Lotus on the road - but being very short (5'3") and with small feet I tend to brake with my toe - not the ball of my foot. This is because the pedals are a slight stretch but if I move the seat forward in the Lotus I cannot get my arms between my (ample) gut and wheel. Therefore I am rather scared that I won't get the braking force (or worse slip off the brake) needed - so I do not plan to toe heel in the test (I have been told it is not needed for ARDS). However we hope to have the driving position well sorted in our MR2.

I think I am also worried by the written test - hoping there are no trick questions!

An interesting thread with some sensible answers. TT,you seem to be getting far too wound up about the ARDS.Forget all about any "clever" driving techniques,they can be practiced AFTER you have passed.All the test is concerned about is your safety [if your safe,everyone else will be].You must be relativly relaxed,the examaning instructor will tell you what he would like to see you do,and will expect full co-operation for any instructions given.He will be looking for smoothness with ALL controls,smooth use of the wheel,progression of the throttle and so forth,from reading what you have already said,I would imagine you to meet those standards already! Another "lesson" before your test? WHY?? Just go along,enjoy yourself,do as you are told,make sure you know your flags,Im sure you'll be back on here telling us how easy it was, quite soon. Good luck.
[On the approach to Island,place Driver side wheels on seam to left of track,aim at the green marshals box,Brake and sort the gears,turn-in right using one allpication of lock use some of the smooth kerbing--------------------]It IS fun after-all

[R59]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

Well, I don't want to scare you, you may get a question like (as I did, which is rather apt) "What is the purpose of heel-and-toe?" and there'll be two answers there which it could be, UNLESS you already know exactly what the purpose of heel and toe is. That's just about the trickiest question you'll get.

The purpose of heel-and-toe is (unpublished answer (e) "insignificant in the 21st century with semi-automatic or sequential dog boxes, allowing left foot braking, and automated engine revving by the engine control unit"

Oh I wish the ARDS test was proper written answers and not multiple guess, there could be some entertaining ones ripe to leak out onto the internet.

Liked the one in the original post. "Undo the seatbelts and jump out of the car".... who wrote that? A hollywood producer? Or the Sun's motoring correspondent?

You'll be fine - just use common sense, and keep your cool when doing the driving. You have to show that you are competent and safe, not that you're ready for the BTCC (capable of crashing into anything that both moves and doesn't move)

[RF_Racer]

Originally Posted by Terrible-Tones

Hi John

Hey mate I drive like a granny anyway!!

Thanks for the advice - as I have said this only happened because everyone else was pretty slow - and as we knew the circuit and the instructor appeared to have confidence in us (he has instructed us before a couple of times) he got us to gradually stretch it little by little. Still nowhere near as fast as him though!!

I think what I meant to say was really that it was probably going OK (a lot faster actually) relative to the other guys. That I was hoping that this sort of demonstrated we were probably doing OK. I have no intention of going b***s out for the ARDS. I would most certainly lose it big time and then it would be a waste + I really don't want to damage someone else's car.

We are leaning towards another lesson so I can neaten my braking and Nina can sort the turn-in a bit better. I can toe-heel in my own Lotus on the road - but being very short (5'3") and with small feet I tend to brake with my toe - not the ball of my foot. This is because the pedals are a slight stretch but if I move the seat forward in the Lotus I cannot get my arms between my (ample) gut and wheel. Therefore I am rather scared that I won't get the braking force (or worse slip off the brake) needed - so I do not plan to toe heel in the test (I have been told it is not needed for ARDS). However we hope to have the driving position well sorted in our MR2.

I think I am also worried by the written test - hoping there are no trick questions!

Try and get your seating sorted, then you should have no issues. Danica Patrick and Sato are both 5"2 and 5"3.

[touringlegend]

In my ARDS test the instructor kept pushing me to go a little faster. Started off gradually and I guess he was just checking I could go reasonably quick without panicking!

I was pretty nervous during my test and as I'd never driven the car before I stalled it pulling out of the pit box.