Where can a late-80s F3 car be run competitively?

[driftwood]

just read this thread
£1 bet the kid never buys a car in the end too much waffling going on
if you have 7000 quid to buy a race car what have u got to spend running it?
got trailer tools tow car mechanic mate helpers?
for 7000 i would look at buying £5-6000 FFord classic seriescar get in it and tets 3 or 4 times till yr on the pace ( mate talk is cheap seen many yappers talk the talk but dont live upto expactations) then if you are in the zone (that to me is top 20 in 30 car grid) drive the fkn thing till your scoring points in the c/ship in year 1 and in year 2 be looking to be on the podiums
Driving a car is 1 thing racing it monthly paying the bills keeping on top of it so its scoring points getting results is another

next choice of car is buy Zetec FFord and do F4 semsec mono races
If this doe snt appeal suggest you go buy TKM kart do 1 fuill season at local tracks if you can be under the 145kg weight limit or if yr heavier do Rotax max for a season and actually do some proper racing and you will spend £2-3k on the kit but Value for money racing with the other 4000quid and race every weekend or fortnight
Karting is the best formula to learn how to prep the kit set it up race craft and the desire to beat the next guy
after i did karting i went slaoon cars FFord and it wa snot till i got my F3 car running 15 yrs later that i found a car that give me the same buzz karting gave me

Ive raced F3 cars off /on last 4 years great cars eat money but i still drove teh kart for fun test days odd race good exercise
and i did the WHT in FFord enjoyed it so i bought a FFord so i could go racing the same way i did in karting with 25 cars around you wheel to wheel and its the driver that has to do the work to get results

Im afraid you have too many ideas/demands not enough experiance and like most folk who start racing cars not enough money
So it is better you cut your cloth to suit & run in the smaller formula for 1 -2 years learn lots then see where you are in 1- 2 season dont try to be the small fish in big pond be medium fish in medium pond and enjoy it there are many years ahead to have the "fancy" race car and i should know I have 10 of them if i sold half of them I could race F1 historics buit i wear my sensible hat and have cars that are more managable to drive maintain load into trailer park in garage and if its shunted affordably repair

For 7o00 quid you can still have alot of fun - I wish i had 7k to spend on a car when i started racing

Final tip
NEVER drive anyones race car that you cannot afford to buy off him after you either shunt it or blow the motor up big time!

[PTRACER]

Originally Posted by andy97

Fair enough but no one really knows yet, so it might be worth trying a F Ford Zetec (there are a few people in F4 or Mono that will offer arrive and drives, including for a test session)

I would gladly pay someone to let me have a go of their car, even for half an hour. But I've seen some people charging £500 or £600 for that privilege because they want to make a really nice, tidy profit on it. I know you can test a Formula Vee for £350, but I think that's a lot of money for what it is.

I suggested on here about sharing a car in a test session, as opposed to actually paying someone to prepare the car and take the time to go down to the track and get the car all sorted, just for me to drive it.

I figured if someone was taking their car along for a test session anyway, then I'd happily pay towards their costs if it meant having a little practice in their car.

No one seemed to understand the concept of that though! It was like I was talking in a foreign language.

[RF_Racer]

I can pass you details of someone who may be able to help the chap has a Formula Vauxhall. How tall are you?

[PTRACER]

Originally Posted by driftwood

£1 bet the kid never buys a car in the end too much waffling going on

£1? You don't sound very confident if you're only betting a pound on it. I've already spent £1000 getting my racing licence and race suit etc., there's no way I'm giving up now.

And there's no chance in hell I'm going back to karting. No way.

If all I can get is a Formula Ford, then fine, I will get a Formula Ford, it's better than not having anything at all. However, while I have the opportunity to try my luck and see if I can get something better, then I'm going to keep trying until F.Ford is the only option left.

[PTRACER]

Originally Posted by RF_Racer

I can pass you details of someone who may be able to help the chap has a Formula Vauxhall. How tall are you?

6ft 1 / 185.5cm.

[RF_Racer]

Thats the sensible approach, as the saying goes, learn to walk before you can run!

I had a quick chat with a mate, he is happy for you to test the car when he next goes testing, if you shunt it you pay repairs+ labour, if you total it you pay him the value of the car approx 8k.

[PTRACER]

Are you serious?

[driftwood]

I would gladly pay someone to let me have a go of their car, even for half an hour. But I've seen some people charging £500 or £600 for that privilege because they want to make a really nice, tidy profit on it. I know you can test a Formula Vee for £350, but I think that's a lot of money for what it is.

why would anyone in their right mind let a guy drive his race car for peanuts
that man has busted his balls to get the £ to buy the car prep it etc if it does not earn a proper rental income to cover the investment made wear and tear etc why rent a car out?
re the FVL test drive either take out accident damage insurance or give the guy £4k before u drive the car
old saying fk it fix it- i once rented FFord and the wheel came of fit minor damage and it was down to me to pay the small repair bill as i was driving ( regardless of what you may think) i also drove F3 car where it snapped round went off backwards heavier damage- my pal observing said afterward athat was a brake disc cracking locked the wheel up that caused that-it cost me £1200 to fix the car no point in arguing the toss i was driving the car end of debate

you may be ambling around test day at Brands minding yr own business doing sensible lap time watching mirros not getting in anyones way and you get clouted by a spinning car its still down to you to fix the car
Fore warned is fore armed

FFord car is your best race car option or go do some proper karting for 1 season with top flight kit and racers
If i was 20 kg lighter 10 yrs younger i would do it with pleasure

[RF_Racer]

Well imagine this, you enter a bend too fast to loose the back end and you slam the car into the armco, you rip off 2 corners and body work damage, thats easily 2k worth of damage!

If you roll it, and if the tub is damaged along with the 4 corners, you give him 8k!

[PTRACER]

No, I mean, are you serious about the test.

I would definitely consider paying for insurance just in case.

[tristancliffe]

You can arrange insurance to cover that too, but the premiums are very high and the excess aren't smaller either. Give one of the racecar insurance a ring and see what it might cost. Could save you a bank load of money, or cost you a load for no return. But that's insurance for you!

Edit: You beat me to it!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

I would gladly pay someone to let me have a go of their car, even for half an hour. But I've seen some people charging £500 or £600 for that privilege because they want to make a really nice, tidy profit on it. I know you can test a Formula Vee for £350, but I think that's a lot of money for what it is.

I suggested on here about sharing a car in a test session, as opposed to actually paying someone to prepare the car and take the time to go down to the track and get the car all sorted, just for me to drive it.

I figured if someone was taking their car along for a test session anyway, then I'd happily pay towards their costs if it meant having a little practice in their car.

No one seemed to understand the concept of that though! It was like I was talking in a foreign language.

What you don't seem to understand is that when you test someone elses's car they are providing you with a piece of their property that they have had to pay for, suffer depreciation on, maintain, pay for engine/ gearbox rebuilds, provide tyres, pay their manhours & transport costs to attend the test. It all adds up. You will will still have to pay for accident damage but they are taking the risk on mechanical damage & on th wear & tear that you will put on the car (bringing forward their own rebuild costs. They will be making some "profit" out of it but it will be very, very small. Do you understand the concept of paying for risk?

Even if I, as a none "professional", was to agree to share a car with you, I would want the full value of the car as a returnable bond & probably about £300 in my pocket for letting you have the privelidge. Thats easily the going rate.

If you go on the Monoposto forum you will find the details of "ans-tech" who will offer you a drive in either an 8v or 16V Vauxhall junior from £300 to run yourself or £350 for arrive and drive. That is a bargain. Ring Phil or Nick up & just do it.

As for tyres lasting a whole season. Hmmmm. You want to be a front runner; front runners in CF3 & BRSCC F3 have new tyres every race. How competitive was your mate? I have run on second hand F Ford & F3 slicks for a max of 4 races & thoroughly enjoyed it but I was happy to be a club racer just taking part. I was dog slow (not just because of the tyres, I am far slower than Tritan!) but you seem to have ambition. Realising ambition costs money.

I keep saying that for the money you have available (and the fact that you are happy to run on used tyres) then your best bets are Mono, F4 etc where most people are in the same boat. You will still enjoy yourself.

You have had quite a lot of advice from people on here who seem to all be current or recent competitors and we have all said that what you want to do can't be done on the budget you have. We might all be wrong & you might be right, in which case write the book & make the money to do BRSCC F3. I'm sorry but Mono & F4 etc are the level you can afford. Mono & F4 are great series for the amateur racer who wants to race on a budget...That's YOU.

[PTRACER]

I think I've been overly harsh about Mono, anyway, to be honest. I don't think running at 40mm ride height is going to make any difference to me, it's just that when I started the thread I thought, "Hang on, I want an F3 car, but I can't run it anywhere in proper F3 spec and cars from series lower down the chain will potentially be faster because they don't have an F3 engine". And then I moaned about the calendar, because I doubt I'll want to travel to Croft or Angelsey and wanted to race at Brands Hatch. I thought if I was going to spend a lot of money on a car, I'd want to get the most out of it. I suppose there is still the option, as has been mentioned, of buying whatever, keeping it for a year and selling it on. Racing cars don't really lose value, do they?

And I can't really disagree with anything you're saying...

[Al Weyman]

Funny I was offerred the loan of an engine the other day but the deal was if i banged it I bought it but as I am not privvy to having a look inside the thing before I fit it I will pass thank you. On the other side of the coin I lent one to a 'mate' once who's driver went out the pitlane and threw a fan belt (poor installation) and proceeded to drive it till he siezed it up, 'mate' gave me it back like that and offered to pay for a new liner to be fitted where as I had to rebuild the thing at my expense, never again I wont lend or borrow an engine or car ever again as I like to stay friends with people.

[RF_Racer]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

No, I mean, are you serious about the test.

I would definitely consider paying for insurance just in case.

Hence why I asked about your height, he is jockey sized lol, so will need to find out if he can easily adjust to accomodate you. Insurance would be a good idea too incase you do prange it.

[PTRACER]

Is it an FV Jnr or an FVL?

[andy97]

And by the way, I am not 100% sure but I think it was Ans-Tech that bought the Ralt RT32B that you were referring to earlier on. They intend to run it in Monoposto Classic, I think. You never know, if you rent one of their Vauxhall Juniors off them & go OK, they MIGHT let you test the Ralt... for the appropriate fee.

And racing cars do lose value, its just that they get to a certain level like Vauxhall Lotus, old F3 cars etc when they are well past their best & where there isn't a current "hot shot" series to run them in where they tend to stay at or near the same price. Until someone invents a Historic series for them & establishes a race at Spa, Monaco, Goodwood, Silverstone Classic etc.

[RF_Racer]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

Is it an FV Jnr or an FVL?

Its a Junior, not sure if its an 8v or 16v.

[PTRACER]

Well I appreciate you asking anyway.

[driftwood]

who cares it has 4 black round things at each corner and the brake pedal is in the middle!!
insurance costs off head allow 10% of the coverage a stheir fee e £4000 £400 fee plus u willhave to do at least £1k excess
so its a gamble do u hand over £1500 to the car owner instead of paying the insurance Co and then u need to find the other 2500 if it cost 4k
or do u go for 8000 cover and pay 800 fee and hope that if u shunt it u actually write it off and pay out another 1000 to get "value for money"
i personally did not do the insurance route when i did race hire but i would not let anyone in 1 of my cars with a wedge of cash or insurance policy in my hand first- i dontcar how rich the driver is or how fast slow prevention is better than cure

another "option" for you on race car is to buy into a race car share the prep mechanic roles with each others and you can do 1 series the other driver race elsewhere or u literally alternate race weekends in a c/ship
however you bioth need tobe clear on car value budget for season and have skills to bring to the deal ie you know what a spanner is for or have the van trailer flat patch and he has the spanner skills u wash car and be his *****

ad to this i have mygale zetec 99 car coming soon to sell circa £5500 nice car ideal semsec races 2 per day@ £250 entry fee tow car race fuel per meeting then u can do F4 mono events later
i do have crossle 32 ish car for sale customer bought it 3 years ago for the son to learn in very nioce condition car he paid £7500 for it ideal semsec races classif FFord and any other FFord series u want to do plus mono
not discusse dtehcar for long time but he did mumble selling for 7k on the windscreen but he is no the sort to frig around when a tyre is kicked cash in yr pocket matket conditions wind blowing right direction he will haggle- plus he dont need the $ space suits him better!

you never answered my question re budget to race on??
u may spend 7k on a toy but do u have teh other 5k torun it all year or do u propose to have 750 pcm spare from wages to do that?
got tow vehicle trailer etc?

[PTRACER]

Originally Posted by driftwood

you never answered my question re budget to race on??
u may spend 7k on a toy but do u have teh other 5k torun it all year or do u propose to have 750 pcm spare from wages to do that?
got tow vehicle trailer etc?

I'll be spending the money as I earn it and if I don't earn enough that particular month then I won't race.

Don't laugh or mock, but I still live at home, I pay £200 every month to live/work here. My only outgoings other than that are on my road car (petrol, very limited maintenance) and advertising for my business. A relative pays the insurance on my road car.

[tristancliffe]

Driftwood (Kevan) is right - the purchase cost is the downpayment. It gets a car in your ownership. In most cases it WON'T even get the car in your garage until you've got a tow vehicle and trailer. And it certainly hasn't paid for you to go through the car, find all the little things that aren't to your liking that weren't put right because it was for sale, fit a new set of tyres, change the battery, got to the circuit, done an event, got back, eaten and drank whilst you're there.....

Mono, F4, SEMSEC are all very cheap forms of single seater motorsport (and still very cheap even compared to most tintop series too), but they aren't ACTUALLY cheap. And whilst you might get back what you paid for a car when you sell it, you won't make back the cost of tyres, brake pads, brake discs, batteries, oil changes, rod ends, sensors, wishbones, wheel balancing etc...

But don't think any of us are trying to put you off. far from it, everyone here wants to see another competitor out there (if only because entry fees shared over more people become lower!), and with the economy trying to implode then motorsport needs all the daft people (like me) in it actually spending money and keeping the cogs whirring. We might be wrecking the planet, but we are saving the economy. Gordon Brown should be paying us...

[andy97]

I can't believe it, I agree with everything Tristan has said in his last post!

[tristancliffe]

Doesn't happen often!

[wheadon]

£350 for a vee test seems quite reasonable. If you say go to Oulton Park, that's £150 for the day (pre season testing), Running the car has to be atleast another £150 and say £50 for the team's transporting fuel. I'd run you for a test in mine if it wasn't in bits at the moment. It's be nice to get someone else in the car for a comparison test. I'm currently trying to get someone in the car who knows what they are doing to try and help my new driver with set up/driving techniques etc. Might give Barry Sime a ring and offer him a free test