Hispania bidding for Toyota chassis?

[Javi]

Spanish press...
http://www.cadenaser.com/deportes/ar...rcsrdep_14/Tes

Pirelli are testing with the TF109, not TF110..., aren´t they???
Were not the TF110´s property of that Stefan GP guy or something like that?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Javi

Spanish press...
http://www.cadenaser.com/deportes/ar...rcsrdep_14/Tes

Pirelli are testing with the TF109, not TF110..., aren´t they???
Were not the TF110´s property of that Stefan GP guy or something like that?

He had an agreement to buy parts of the team, including the car....

....but when it became obvious he was all mouth and trousers, and did not actually like to put any money on the table to back his words and PR statements, Toyota 'changed the locks' (figuritively speaking) on the building they leased him in the Cologne TF1 complex and repo'd the car and bits IIRC.

Technically I dont think they ever became his in any other manner than in his head.

AFAIK Pirelli are testing with the same TF10.

[duke_toaster]

IIRC the Pirelli test car is the TF09, while the TF10 is a one year newer car (and designed for no refuelling), they don't have much data on it. However, they know how the TF09 behaves on the Bridgestones.

[ghinzani]

Nah Pirelli are using the 09 according to reports. The 010 Toyota will be a great capture if they can get it - although what engine, will they chuck a Cosworth in or keep the Toyota? I think if the 010 had been run by a good team this year it could have been a Brawn 09 situation.

[Malfunction Junction]

*cough* should be merging with Epsilon Euskadi *cough*

[E.B]

Originally Posted by ghinzani

Nah Pirelli are using the 09 according to reports.

It is indeed the TF109 Pirelli are using.

[Pingguest]

HRT bids for the Toyota chassis? To race with it next year? If so, then this truly is a sign of weakness. I reminds me to Minardi buying the 2002 Arrows in 2003.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

HRT bids for the Toyota chassis? To race with it next year? If so, then this truly is a sign of weakness. I reminds me to Minardi buying the 2002 Arrows in 2003.

Its more than liking a better starting point than there own 2010 chassis

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

HRT bids for the Toyota chassis? To race with it next year? If so, then this truly is a sign of weakness. I reminds me to Minardi buying the 2002 Arrows in 2003.

I never realised Stoddart bought them as potential new Minardi's... Interesting. They then became the Super Aguris of course.

This from Wikki:
Further use of Arrows chassis

The chassis and intellectual property rights for the chassis were later bought by Paul Stoddart, the then-head of the Minardi team as a potential replacement for his own team's chassis. The new Super Aguri F1 team bought the 2002 cars and ran them (with some modifications) as the SA05 during the first races of the 2006 season. One of these cars was said to have been on display at Melbourne airport before being acquired by Super Aguri. After being returned to the factory to be updated to comply with the 2006 regulations, the car was taken back to Melbourne for the Australian Grand Prix. An update still based on the same chassis was designated the SA06 and made its début at the 2006 German Grand Prix. The SA05 and SA06 did not score a single point in the 2006 season.

edit - reading up on it I do vaguely remember Stoddy back to backing them. What a way to motivate your chief designer!!

[TF110]

Being a Toyota guy, the TF110 was said to be much better in Downforce than the TF109 by some 20-30%. I read somewhere that Pascal Vasselon, designer of the Toyota cars since 08' said they had a blown exhaust, or diffuser scheduled for the first race, so along with Red Bull they'd been the first. If you remember late in the season of 09', the TF109 was directly behind the Red Bull, in Suzuka, 2nd place. In Singapore, 2nd place. Even in Abu Dhabi it was running in the top 5 in the hands of Kobayashi. Trulli would be fueled better than anyone above him in Brazil but crashed out with Sutil, as he did in Spa qualifying 2nd with more fuel.

If this is a real deal, and HRT can get the Toyota, I heard it would come with Toyota Technical support. Not backing but the ability to use their facilities and some of their employees.

SOURCE: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/to...tle-23701.html

[N.A-D.R]

I hope for Bruno Senna's stake that hrt can merge or buy the toyota so he can have more of a chance to fight with other cars instead of having to cruise around in 2nd last every race.Because i dont have faith for hrt by themselfs for 2011...

[Sodemo]

Surely HRT need more money and sponsors before they can consider anything else?

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Surely HRT need more money and sponsors before they can consider anything else?

Which is where a merger comes in presumably, to provide a cash injection.

[Javi]

It´s curious, because, while Toyota is "officially" gone, it seems that they´re (Toyota Motorsport) not that keen on dissapearing. Since they closed the F1 team, Toyota´s been linked with Stefan GP, then testing for Pirelli..., then HRT...
So, I feel that either someone at the head of motorsport department has the will to capitalize the investment made in the TF110 and the remains of the team (technical support and so on) or someone at the board of Toyota is really sorry about quitting F1 this year...

[Wims]

Labour rules in germany prevents Toyota from totally shutting down. They are also planning other motorsports like Rally and Le Mans. The expertise is still there, they just dont work in F1 anymore

[TF110]

They never were going to close down the factory in Cologne in the first place. I still think they might try to sneak back in F1, if not sometime next year with HRT or something, then maybe when the new regulations are introduced. Energy recovery should be a big draw for them. Seeing as how they're the leader in hybrid cars.

[E.B]

I think there is a German 'workplace' ruling that in effect does not allow Toyota to close a department easily, and the staff have been re-deployed. I guess it might relate to the future re-opening of any such Competition Dept.....

Toyota have always indicated that they love and value their motorsport links and heritage, and will always be involved in various projects that it saw as an R&D benefit. F1 it felt no longer represented a value for money return, whilst at the same time other areas of more beneficial / relevance to road car development such as Rallying programmes, Le Mans / Endurance racing, hell even NASCAR were seen as more relevant to them in the short term.

Toyota still involves itself AFAIK in very sophisticated KERS work way in advance of the F1 KERS programmes with a Supra (HV-R) in the JGT Championship. Featuring multi electric motor and wheel 'deployment' / multi wheel regeneration and AWD technology that F1 never allowed, it has been developed by the factory for several years now and I know has won 24 hour races (Tokachi 24) it has competed in. Unlike the overly restricted F1 uses of KERS, in effect the Supra HV-R allows the car to capture and use maximum amounts of energy from regenerative braking.

Toyota always claimed that the Hybrid technology in the road going Prius was more sophisticated than the best F1 KERS systems, and was ultimately why they did not bother with KERS in F1.

Toyota has long talked of re-involving itself in a full LMS programme when the Hybrid Technology is allowed, as is planned AFAIK.

I guess what I am saying is that Toyota is still very active in motorsport worldwide, and any involvement with say HRT in F1 would come with the involvement of the Toyota Motorsports Division, its resources and the technological wizardry of its existing department.

I am sure that any development of a new car for HRT to use in 2011 would be far better off being based on the Toyota TF110 (of which two exist at the Cologne TF1 factory) than the woeful Dallara, which is from what I see their GP2 car with a different powertrain. Toyota have still kept close tabs on F1 with data collection and have basically said that the TF1-10 would have likely been at least a McLaren and Ferrari equivalent had they run it in 2010. Sounds like a solid basis for HRT to get themselves from the F1 anchor position they currently hold. It also would be a good and more economically justified place for Toyota to be should it ever want to return to F1 as more than a 'consultant'.

With the new engine rules planned for F1 potentially being based on a 'world motorsport' platform (ie the basis of a similar engine for F1, LMS et al) then clearly Toyota would be a valuable ally and technical partner to have access to.

Toyota Supra KERS equipped Hybrid JGTC racecar pictured below.
More about the Toyota Supra HV-R programme <HERE> Also you can 'Google' for more info and youtube clips etc.

[TF110]

Yeah I've read up on that Supra. This is why I said when the new regulations come into play we might see Toyota back. I would say they would like the challenge, as a world engine, KERS, and possibly ground effects could make a return. Toyota knows a thing or two about ground effects I think from their World Sports Car/Group C/IMSA GTP days

[flor]

This rumor is 3 or more months old and as far as I can tell true. However they wouldn't use Toyota engine as some people here suggested.

[Adam43]

You'd think they'd have got on with it by now if it was going to happen. It isn't just a case of loading the car on a transporter and taking it to the track. It will need development before next year. Still maybe HRT are rolling in it and are waiting to the last possible moment to surprise everyone. er.

[TF110]

I've heard the dealings are going on under the Radar and they could possibly be saving the money to pay Toyota for their services, which is why they haven't upgraded that dog of a car they have this year. Not sure if there's any truth to this. But I hope there is. I wish Senna could have a good car to drive. And I also wish Chandhok would be back in the seat, he's more than a match for Senna. Maybe they're using Yamamoto's money to pay for Toyota's services in 2011! haha, I wish.

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by TF110

I've heard the dealings are going on under the Radar and they could possibly be saving the money to pay Toyota for their services, which is why they haven't upgraded that dog of a car they have this year. Not sure if there's any truth to this. But I hope there is. I wish Senna could have a good car to drive. And I also wish Chandhok would be back in the seat, he's more than a match for Senna. Maybe they're using Yamamoto's money to pay for Toyota's services in 2011! haha, I wish.

Maybe if they run Nakajima they will get a discount.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by ghinzani

Maybe if they run Nakajima they will get a discount.

Funny you should say that, because that was a stipulation with Stefan GP. Stefan had no facilities of his own but used Toyotas. They had a 'team' I guess you could call it, but had no grid position. They probably would have been the same as HRT is. They would have had a fast car but what money to pay for development? Nakajima was Toyota backed so there was some cash, but I doubt it was enough, maybe if JV would have been in the running he could have had some influence. Nah, who am I kidding, Stefan made a bad name for himself, i doubt he'll ever get into F1. But, Nakajima, I'm not sure what he's up to now, if anything, I still think HRT could use Toyota, they just have to come up with the cash.

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by TF110

Funny you should say that, because that was a stipulation with Stefan GP. Stefan had no facilities of his own but used Toyotas. They had a 'team' I guess you could call it, but had no grid position. They probably would have been the same as HRT is. They would have had a fast car but what money to pay for development? Nakajima was Toyota backed so there was some cash, but I doubt it was enough, maybe if JV would have been in the running he could have had some influence. Nah, who am I kidding, Stefan made a bad name for himself, i doubt he'll ever get into F1. But, Nakajima, I'm not sure what he's up to now, if anything, I still think HRT could use Toyota, they just have to come up with the cash.

Im very surprised Nakajima didnt get the Pirelli test driver role when Toyota sold their 09 car to Pirelli for testing the new tyre purposes. Would have helped his chances of getting back in F1 no end.

[TF110]

Toyota didn't even sell them their car, they just provided it to them for testing. In fact Toyota is the one that's collecting the data for Pirelli. I read this and thought to myself, wow! Really? Toyota is collecting the data for them, but for what? They have to use it for something. That's just my guess.