Newcastle Is Go!!!

[PS2244]

Just for reference last years accumulative crowd was 145,411 for Townsville and also that point on crowds decreasing in the more recent years is a lie the 2nd biggest crowd on record was set in 2015

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

How many subscribers?

Too old? On what grounds?

I am not sure why the findings of V8SC and factions within the NSW Government embellishing anticipated economic impacts has to do the location of Homebush or Newcastle??

A history of claiming high economic impact and findings of these not being in touch with reality has a lot to do with the Newcastle event - we can bury our heads in the sand or we can discuss why this has occurred?



Great to see you are still trying to silence people who dont agree with you GTR. A great quality for a forum moderator

Superview numbers are unknown but are said to be healthy there's also a huge array of online streaming services available for international viewers. Also, You can't compare a street circuit like Canberra that took place so long ago economically too much has changed the only comparisons we have are current street circuits and Homebush

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by Alan52

This "contest of ideas" happens here every time a new street or overseas race is put on the calendar.None of us really know whether Newcastle is going to be successful or not.It will not be possible to judge until after the second year of the race or maybe even the third.The novelty factor will bring a lot of people in the first time.Whether their experience will get them back ,like Adelaide, or make them determined to never return like Canberra and Homebush ,will be the key.
The organisers need to make sure things like access and spectator viewing are A+.They need to price tickets of all categories reasonably-socio economically this is not the Sydney or Melbourne market.They need to concentrate on the local market.There is not enough accommodation for tens of thousands of visitors even if that many wanted to come.
Finally people here need to stop pointing to Townsville as a raging continuing success.Looking at my DVD's of races there the crowds now are only about a third of what they were in 2009 and 2010.This is also confirmed by speaking to people who go to the event.If it was not for the regional pork barrel it might be gone by now.

False information, crowds are nowhere near a third of their size now, the second biggest accumulative attendance was achieved in 2015 and numbers were only slightly down on that last season

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by LD2244

Superview numbers are unknown but are said to be healthy there's also a huge array of online streaming services available for international viewers.

So they are unknown however before you were using them as justification for the huge international exposure Newcastle would receive from the event.

Do you see how that is contradictory and slightly difficult to take a face value without any firm evidence to support it?

Originally Posted by LD2244

Also, You can't compare a street circuit like Canberra that took place so long ago economically too much has changed the only comparisons we have are current street circuits and Homebush

I am more highlighting and comparing the findings that the event communicated inflated economic benefits to gain support for getting the event off the ground - which were never realised. This has occurred at Canberra and Homebush - both v8sc events.

Do you see the theme?

Do you see why there may be some skeptics for your claimed $59 million in economic benefits for Newcastle?

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

So they are unknown however before you were using them as justification for the huge international exposure Newcastle would receive from the event.

Do you see how that is contradictory and slightly difficult to take a face value without any firm evidence to support it?



I am more highlighting and comparing the findings that the event communicated inflated economic benefits to gain support for getting the event off the ground - which were never realised. This has occurred at Canberra and Homebush - both v8sc events.

Do you see the theme?

Do you see why there may be some skeptics for your claimed $59 million in economic benefits for Newcastle?

When I say unknown I mean for myself not generally there was an article that stated it but it's since been taken down and I don't remember it. But I understand what comparisons your trying to draw but I don't see a similar outcome for Newcastle

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

This "contest of ideas" happens here every time a new street or overseas race is put on the calendar.None of us really know whether Newcastle is going to be successful or not.It will not be possible to judge until after the second year of the race or maybe even the third.The novelty factor will bring a lot of people in the first time.Whether their experience will get them back ,like Adelaide, or make them determined to never return like Canberra and Homebush ,will be the key.
The organisers need to make sure things like access and spectator viewing are A+.They need to price tickets of all categories reasonably-socio economically this is not the Sydney or Melbourne market.They need to concentrate on the local market.There is not enough accommodation for tens of thousands of visitors even if that many wanted to come.
Finally people here need to stop pointing to Townsville as a raging continuing success.Looking at my DVD's of races there the crowds now are only about a third of what they were in 2009 and 2010.This is also confirmed by speaking to people who go to the event.If it was not for the regional pork barrel it might be gone by now.

Great to see a sensible, balanced post in what often becomes something of an irrational clash of ideals in this type of thread.

Agree with you although not on Townsville - I simply don't have enough concrete info on that event to know whether you're right or wrong.

[one five five]

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[sizzle]

Originally Posted by peckstar

so 2 in 3 people are no longer there? Would mean the crowd is about the size of the bathurst 12 hour, I watched townsville last year and that is not the case

The official number is the crowd is now about 10% less than the first year, The first year is always bigger due to, as alan stated, the novelty factor


Anyway this is about newcastle. Report on the 2 of crackpots in newcastle council

Motion to derail ‘dangerous’ Newcastle 500 rejected

Don't get me wrong Pecky, I like Supercars and have a fair few friends in the game. I also intend going to Newcastle.
If the figures for Townsville are only 10% down I will eat my hat.

[Alan52]

Here's some Townsville numbers for you.In 2009 there were 19 Grandstands and they were sold out.In 2016 there were 6-and most of those were the smaller ones-and there were plenty of empty seats during Supercar races..If you have a look at any recordings you have of races comparing those years you will see GA is much less crowded in most areas and down in the turns 2-4 area is a ghost town.Believing the figures put out by the organisers is tooth fairy stuff.
No doubt all you big Supercar fans have recordings of those races.Trust your eyes not the lies.

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Here's some Townsville numbers for you.In 2009 there were 19 Grandstands and they were sold out.In 2016 there were 6-and most of those were the smaller ones-and there were plenty of empty seats during Supercar races..If you have a look at any recordings you have of races comparing those years you will see GA is much less crowded in most areas and down in the turns 2-4 area is a ghost town.Believing the figures put out by the organisers is tooth fairy stuff.
No doubt all you big Supercar fans have recordings of those races.Trust your eyes not the lies.

I understand what you mean but Supercars' crowd numbers are often fairly spot on and they have been adamant that crowds at the Townsville 400 have struggled by about 10% decrease due to economic troubles in the region

[GTRMagic]

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by LD2244

I understand what you mean but Supercars' crowd numbers are often fairly spot on and they have been adamant that crowds at the Townsville 400 have struggled by about 10% decrease due to economic troubles in the region

Supercars crowd numbers are often largely spot on?
That's a original perspective.

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Supercars crowd numbers are often largely spot on?
That's a original perspective.

How so may I ask I'm sorry? Also I place emphasis on the "mostly" part of course some may be inaccurate but generally from my experiences as a fan and viewer their numbers reflect the crowd attendances released however with your point in Townsville I beg to differ crowds have been much larger in recent years but they're far off the inaugural year

[one five five]

Originally Posted by LD2244

How so may I ask I'm sorry?

Supercars crowd figures have always been needed to be taken with a grain of salt.

They went through a period where they were breaking the record for attendance at Oran Park every year for about 5 years straight even though the place was full years before that..... one track even did a press release one year after the event debunking the Supercars crowd figure released as embarrasingly high.

Supercars aren't the only sport in Australia that does this of course. Does anyone take the NRL crowd figures, particularly for club games at ANZ Stadium seriously?

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by one five five

Supercars crowd figures have always been needed to be taken with a grain of salt.

They went through a period where they were breaking the record for attendance at Oran Park every year for about 5 years straight even though the place was full years before that..... one track even did a press release one year after the event debunking the Supercars crowd figure released as embarrasingly high.

Supercars aren't the only sport in Australia that does this of course. Does anyone take the NRL crowd figures, particularly for club games at ANZ Stadium seriously?

I understand awhat you mean there and I do, but I think most sporting divisions within Australia display a tendency to over exaggerate attendances but it's the only hard evidence we have but Supercars is nowhere near as bad as other sports. Casual observations trackside are good but they're too hard to prove and are to bias in my view to have a significant input

[one five five]

Originally Posted by LD2244

I understand awhat you mean there and I do, but I think most sporting divisions within Australia display a tendency to over exaggerate attendances but it's the only real evidence we have. Casual observations are good but they're too hard to prove

If they over-exaggerate how is it real evidence? It becomes a made-up number and completely unreliable.

Over-exaggerated numbers are just as hard (if not harder) to prove than observations on the ground... blindly accept promoters crowd numbers at your own risk.

Here is an article on the exaggerated crowd figures from the first Homebush 500 in 2009
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...1212-kpit.html

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by one five five

If they over-exaggerate how is it real evidence? It becomes a made-up number and completely unreliable.

Over-exaggerated numbers are just as hard (if not harder) than observations on the ground... blindly accept promoters crowd numbers at your own risk.

Here is an article on the exaggerated crowd figures from the first Homebush 500 in 2009
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...1212-kpit.html

I think i poorly worded I meant one of the few types of evidence to discuss so that was a typo on my behalf. What I mean is that if there's a decline such as what there was with Townsville they acknowledge it as a decline

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

If they over-exaggerate how is it real evidence? It becomes a made-up number and completely unreliable.

Over-exaggerated numbers are just as hard (if not harder) to prove than observations on the ground... blindly accept promoters crowd numbers at your own risk.

Here is an article on the exaggerated crowd figures from the first Homebush 500 in 2009
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...1212-kpit.html

ha ha, good one. an old peter mackay article. AXE... Grind... take that with a grain of salt (and ten shots of tequlla to believe it)

[PS2244]

The community event is going well today already looks around 500 people through the gates already by 9-10 which is very good for Saturday. It'll be a big crowd by midday

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by LD2244

I understand awhat you mean there and I do, but I think most sporting divisions within Australia display a tendency to over exaggerate attendances but it's the only hard evidence we have but Supercars is nowhere near as bad as other sports.

Where do you get the idea that Supercars isn't as bad as other sports in this area? They are basically the industry leaders in terms of cooking the crowd attendance books

[GTRMagic]

There is a crowd on a cool Newcastle morning...

[GTRMagic]

Gee.. are all those people real?

[GTRMagic]

More people

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Where do you get the idea that Supercars isn't as bad as other sports in this area? They are basically the industry leaders in terms of cooking the crowd attendance books

Look at australian rugbys publishings and the A-Leagues they'll openly state a sum around 50% capacity when in reality it'll only be around 25%

[GTRMagic]

Looks like the cars & stars event at the NEC back in the noughties...