Your IRL calendar

[Purist]

These are done by track type, but this seems like a good combined line-up.

Ovals:
Phoenix (1.0-mile)
Milwaukee (1.032-mile)
Motegi (1.5-mile)
Kansas (1.5-mile)
Michigan (2.0-mile)
Indianapolis (2.5-mile)
Pocono (2.5-mile)

Road Courses:
Portland (1.915 miles, 1.964 with chicane)
Laguna Seca (2.238 miles)
Mid Ohio (2.258 miles)
Mont Tremblant (2.65 miles)
Mexico City (2.747 miles)
Watkins Glen (3.377 miles, 3.4 with chicane)
Road America (4.048 miles)

Airport/Street Circuits
Toronto (1.721 miles)
St. Petesburg (1.806-miles)
Long Beach (1.968 miles)
Edmonton (1.973 miles)
Cleveland (2.106 miles)
Surfers Paradise (2.795 miles)

This covers a number of the current good events. It gives a nod to series history (Pocono and Michigan). In addition, it avoids some problematic areas (high-banked 1.5-mile ovals), and distributes the series around the country and in important markets. And I might add that this gives you the round 20 events some people are saying would be the maximum.

[TilkeWannabe]

I don't pay much attention to IRL AT ALL! So I'm gonna have a stab at it, make it up as I go.

Surfers Paradise
Kansas Speedway
Phoenix
Motegi
Indianapolis 500
Milwaukee Mile
Nashville Speedway
Road America
Iowa Speedway
Texas SuperSpeedway
Portland
Cleveland
Belle Isle
Watkins Glen
Michigan Speedway
Long Beach
Mexico City
Fontana SuperSpeedway
Chicagoland Speedway

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Purist

These are done by track type, but this seems like a good combined line-up.
Pocono (2.5-mile)

Isn't it a bit too bumpy? Nothing a resurface can't solve though.

[Purist]

From the footage I've seen, I'm quite certain it's been properly resurfaced since 1989.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Purist

From the footage I've seen, I'm quite certain it's been properly resurfaced since 1989.

Its been resurfaced for the Nascar races there this year.

[mac]

How's this one?

March 15 - St Petersburg
March 21 - Las Vegas Speedway
April 5 - Rio de Janeiro - is the old roval still in use? Muzza? I loved that place.
April 19 - Long Beach
April 26 - Kansas
May 31 - Indianapolis
June 7 - Milwaukee
June 21 - Detroit
June 28 - Cleveland
July 5 - Toronto
July 12 - Michigan
August 2 - Motegi
August 16 - Nashville
August 22 - Texas
September 6 - Edmonton
September 13 - Elkhart Lake
September 20 - Watkins Glen
October 4 - Laguna Seca
October 11 - Mexico City
October 25 - Surfers Paradise
November 8 - Chicagoland

21 races including 9 ovals.

[Alwaysfirst]

No Rio isn't in use any more. Shame, but there we go.

[Jonerz]

1. Phoenix (oval)
2. Texas (oval) (Get the hot desert done before it gets to stinking hot, and before NFL football returns to the consciousness of Dallas-inians-ites?)
3. Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach (street course)
4. Gateway (oval)
5. Indy (oval) *triple crown
6. Milwaukee 225 (oval)
7. Portland (road course)
8. Edmonton (street course / airport)
9. Cleveland (street course / airport)
10. Toronto (street course)
11. Michigan (oval) *triple crown
12. Belle Isle (street course)
13. Pocono (oval)
14. Mexico City (road course)
15. Road America (road course)
16. Mid-Ohio (road course)
17. Motegi (oval)
18. Surfer's Paradise (street course)
19. Laguna Seca (road course)
20. Fontana (oval) *triple crown

Oval: 9 Road Course: 5 Street Course: 6

Seems like a pretty reasonable schedule. Keeps the IndyCars off of the evil 1.5 mile banked ovals for the most part, and away from the hallowed Sports Car grounds of Sebring and Road Atlanta.

Chris

[codename_47]

American racing NEEDS races like Cleveland, Laguna Seca and Road America.

These tracks always put on great races and they probably need the big event to keep them operating (thinking more of Cleveland here, did it ever host anything apart from the one Champcar weekend? It could be lost if it isn't re-added soon)

I would love to see Road Atlanta added too but there must be a reason that whatever the top level open wheels series has been they've stayed away from this course...possibly the owner?

[Teretonga]

Laguna Seca
Watkins Glen
Road America
Road Atlanta
Montreal
Mexico City
Mid Ohio
Portland

Toronto
Long Beach
St Petersburg
Sufers Paradise
Cleveland
Edmonton

Michigan
Indianapolis
Texas
Nashville
Milwaukee
Fontana
Chicago
Las Vegas
Motegi?

Out of this pool pick 20.
I am not in favour of short ovals (less than a mile) nor really high banked ovals like the 1.5 mile ones.
Street races can be very Mickey mouse courses so I have gone for the airfields and limited the street races to the classic events or what may become classic events (St Pete's).
Chicago, Michigan and Vegas are in because they are important markets (providing the races are supported).

Motegi is Honda's dream.

[Bob Riebe]

[QUOTE=Teretonga]Laguna Seca
Nelson Ledges
Road America
Road Atlanta
St. Jovite
Mosport
Mid Ohio

Sufers Paradise
Cleveland
Edmonton

Michigan
Indianapolis
Texas
Pocono
Milwaukee
Rafaela
Motegi

[Purist]

Bob, how serious are you being? You do realize how much work would have to be done to Nelson Ledges, right? Also, if Rafaela has more than 10 degrees of banking, it would be bloody fast (2.871-mile oval); exactly how much banking does Rafaela have? I've checked a couple of websites but have come up empty thus far.

P.S. I may post a revised 21-race schedule shortly.

[Fish_Flake]

Besides, if there are races at Cleveland and Mid-Ohio, why would there need to be one at Nelson Ledges?

[mattcat]

Homestead
Sebring
Daytona (Oval)
Texas
Indianapolis
Road America
Cleveland
Pocono
Dover
Lime Rock
Mosport
Watkins Glen
Long Beach
Sears Point
Miller Motorsports Park
Laguna Seca
Bristol
Hickory
Mexico City
Road Atlanta
Darlington

Now, before anyone calls me an idiot for including a few NASCAR oval tracks, keep in mind that they are all very different from one another, and all tracks that it would be cool as hell to see an IRL race at. I mean, Indy Cars at Darlington. That would be a spectacle! And would I love to see them race at Road Atlanta. Probably the most underrated circuit in North America. Anyway, that's my season.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by mattcat

Homestead
Sebring
Daytona (Oval)
Texas
Indianapolis
Road America
Cleveland
Pocono
Dover
Lime Rock
Mosport
Watkins Glen
Long Beach
Sears Point
Miller Motorsports Park
Laguna Seca
Bristol
Hickory
Mexico City
Road Atlanta
Darlington

Now, before anyone calls me an idiot for including a few NASCAR oval tracks, keep in mind that they are all very different from one another, and all tracks that it would be cool as hell to see an IRL race at. I mean, Indy Cars at Darlington. That would be a spectacle! And would I love to see them race at Road Atlanta. Probably the most underrated circuit in North America. Anyway, that's my season.

1) Sebring and Road Atlanta are sportscar territory, I know that Atlantics are running at RA this year but nothing open wheel bigger than that. It would detract from the other big events such as Petit and the 12hrs. Mosport, again is more sportscar territory. Can't let Indycar have all the good tracks

2) Indy, Road America, Cleveland, Pocono, Watkins Glen, Long Beach, Sears Point, Miller, Laguna and Mexico City: All good choices.

3) Hickory, Bristol and Lime Rock: Hickory and Bristol are too short and would end up as complete wreckfests. Lime Rock wouldn't be a wreckfest but again its a bit too short and tight. Portland would be better choice.

4) Daytona Oval would be suicidal in open-wheel cars. Texas, Dover and Darlington are too highly banked for open-wheel cars.

[Tim Northcutt]

The IRL should keep the three ovals that do not currently host Sprint Cup races (Iowa, Nashville & Kentucky) because they sell lots of tickets as a main attraction for the season for those venues.

Iowa and Nashville are usually packed, and Kentucky usually draws between 50,000 and 60,000 people in a 62,000 seat facility.

The IRL outdraws the former Busch series and the NASCAR Trucks at those three venues as well.

As for short ovals, Iowa was a fantastic race last Sunday with lots of side-by-side action and Richmond is always a great show...short ovals add variety to the oval scheme and I love to watch the IRL race there.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by johntt

1) Sebring and Road Atlanta are sportscar territory, I know that Atlantics are running at RA this year but nothing open wheel bigger than that. It would detract from the other big events such as Petit and the 12hrs. Mosport, again is more sportscar territory. Can't let Indycar have all the good tracks

2) Indy, Road America, Cleveland, Pocono, Watkins Glen, Long Beach, Sears Point, Miller, Laguna and Mexico City: All good choices.

3) Hickory, Bristol and Lime Rock: Hickory and Bristol are too short and would end up as complete wreckfests. Lime Rock wouldn't be a wreckfest but again its a bit too short and tight. Portland would be better choice.

4) Daytona Oval would be suicidal in open-wheel cars. Texas, Dover and Darlington are too highly banked for open-wheel cars.

1. I don't see why running another national series at any of these circuits would detract from the sports car races held there. I go to Petit and Sebring every year...the IRL running there wouldn't stop me from going to the ALMS races, and it would cause me to probably go to the IndyCar races too! They could even hold them as double header weekends!

2. Thank you! I thought so too!

3. They run 43 stock cars at Bristol and they used to do it at Hickory, too. I don't see why 25 Indy Cars would be a problem. I've always wanted to see open wheel cars on a really tight short track.

4. Daytona would be fast, yes, but I don't think it would be any more dangerous than anywhere else they run (Fontana, Michigan, Texas). Also, they still run Texas and they used to run Dover, so I think they're not too highly banked for Indy Cars. And as I said, Darlington would be a hell of a show! Maybe Bristol is a bit too ambitious, though.

5. I wasn't submitting this to the IRL, just posting what circuits I'd be very interested to see IRL cars take on...

[Purist]

Indycars ran Daytona once in 1959, and two drivers were killed; Bill France himself didn't consider it an option having them back after that first event. It's just not a good idea having open-wheelers on high-banked ovals of more than a mile. Texas in 2001 saw two significant (injury) crashes. Atlanta, at just a mile and a half (not 2.5 miles like Daytona), saw a dozen cars qrapped up in a "big one"; IRL never went back (and everyone behind the crash had to retire because there was too much debris to not hit something). Dover or Rockingham, NC would work I think as they're shorter, so you don't have to have the cars restricted such that they're running in packs.

I wouldn't run OPEN-WHEEL cars at anywhere shorter than Richmond. The 0.5-mile ovals work for NASCAR because they can get away with the contact that inevitably happens. Indycars are NOT so forgiving.

I think the issue is that the Petit Le Mans and 12 Hours of Sebring are THE headline events each year at those tracks. Aside from that, I'm not sure I'd like all the "safety" changes IRL would demand before agreeing to race both places; I do NOT like the Sears Point layout IRL uses at all.

[mac]

No one has mentioned Mt Tremblant.

I'd love to see big open-wheelers back there - awesome circuit!

Do we all agree that there is no room in the schedule for three Canadian events (assuming Toronto and Edmonton are pretty much locked in for the near future)?

[Purist]

In continuation, Darlington will not work because the usable racing line is way too narrow.

Well, as I'm already commenting, here's a revised schedule/track listing (and I'm just going to go a little nuts here, and maybe run out to the limit of 25 races).
1. Rockingham, NC (evening, 300 miles)
2. Phoenix (225 miles)
3. New Hampshire (225 miles)
4. St. Petersburg (110 laps)
5. Long Beach (100 laps)
6. Kansas (300 miles)
7. Indianapolis (Triple Crown, Memorial Day Weekend, 500 miles)
8. Milwaukee (250 miles)
9. Detroit (Belle Isle '98-01 configuration, 90 laps)
10. Portland (112 laps)
11. Cleveland (4th of July Weekend, evening with runway lights, 120 laps)
12. Iowa (evening, 225 laps)
13. Michigan (Triple Crown, 500 miles)
14. Toronto (August in Canada, 105 laps)
15. Edmonton (110 laps)
16. Mont Tremblant (Turn 1 without chicane, 90 laps)
17. Pocono (Triple Crown, Labor Day Weekend, 500 miles)
18. Road America (70 laps)
19. Mid Ohio (105 laps)
20. Watkins Glen (Oktoberfest, 80 laps)
21. Laguna Seca (105 laps)
22. Surfers Paradise (70 laps)
23. Suzuka (a nod to Honda, a great road course, 70 laps)
24. Mexico City (no stadium chicane, 85 laps)
25. Nashville (evening, 300 miles)

That makes 10 ovals, 8 road courses, 7 airport/street circuits, and 4 evening/night races. The schedule would run from the last weekend in February to roughly the weekend before Thanksgiving. Besides the championship itself, the idea would be to have four other main prizes: the Canadian Cup, Best Ringer (best season-long performer on ovals), Best Road Racer, and the Triple Crown.

I haven't had this much fun posting in awhile!

[TilkeWannabe]

IndyCars at Suzuka! I don't know how to describe how cool that would be. Oh MAN!!!!!

[mattcat]

Ok, fine, take away Daytona (Oval), Hickory and Bristol . I'm leaving Sebring and Road Atlanta though, provided the IRL runs them the way they are now and doesn't ruin them with "upgrades". I'll replace the first three with Rockingham, Barber, and VIR. So now, my revised schedule (with distances!):

1. Homestead-Miami - 200 laps
2. Sebring International Raceway (Full Course) - 2 hour timed
3. Barber Motorsports Park - 2 hour timed
4. Texas - 200 laps
5. Indianapolis - 200 laps
6. Road America - 2 hour timed
7. Cleveland - 2 hour timed
8. Pocono - 150 laps
9. Dover - 300 laps
10. Lime Rock Park (Old Course) - 2 hour timed
11. Mosport - 2 hour timed
12. Watkins Glen (Full Course) - 2 hour timed
13. Long Beach - 2 hour timed
14. Sears Point (Full Course) - 2 hour timed
15. Miller Motorsports Park (Full Course) - 2 hour timed
16. Laguna Seca - 2 hour timed
17. Virginia International Raceway - 2 hour timed
18. Rockingham (US) - 300 laps
19. Mexico City - 2 hour timed
20. Road Atlanta - 2 hour timed
21. Darlington - 250 laps

[Purist]

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, Matt, it's just that you're bringing up a number of things that are getting my attention.

I'll be honest, I don't care for the whole timed event thing when it comes to Indycars; it's the norm with sportscars, so I'm fine with it in that realm. Also, just two hours on the longer/faster road courses seems too short to me.

I'll say it again, the racing line at Darlington will be too narrow. The more steeply banked portion is only 27 feet wide in the turns (30 feet wide on the straights); so you'll either have no passing, or a slew of yellow or even red flags if you run there. For reference, Indianapolis isn't considered particularly wide by oval standards and its 50 feet wide.

I really like VIR, so I'm glad to see that one on your schedule. The full 3.27-mile course is just awesome!

Miller and Barber are much more suited to bikes than high power racing cars. Miller has the long front straightaway (3,550ft), but all the circuit variants have so many of those long, medium-speed corners (where you can't really pass or do anything) that even the perimeter circuit is only marginally faster than the full course in terms of average lap speed.

Barber has no straight of 2,000ft or more, and those esses on the back side are real corners instead of just bends; so the back stretch is pretty broken up. Thus you don't have the distance needed to get a good run on the straight portions, and the corners are fast but significant enough that the aero turbulence will cause problems trying to stick with the guy in front of you.

Elsewhere on Ten-Tenths, someone posted not too long ago that GM doesn't do road car testing at Barber anymore because it's too slow/twisty a track.

[mattcat]

Hey, no worries. You bring up valid points. What is the time limit on races now, 2.5 hours? Without really thinking too hard I was thinking it was 2, but that's Formula 1.

[Purist]

I think the road races are currently limited to two hours (or something pretty close to that), if they don't reach their scheduled distance by that time of course.