US Tic-Tac Signals

[numbersix]

At the recent, excellent training session at Oulton Park, Andy Holley made reference to the many signals used by US marshals (aka Corner Workers, Turn Marshals) almost like the tic-tac used by bookies at nag racing.

For your amusement check out these, in particular the signs for Brown, and Yellow.

http://www.michiganturnmarshals.org/...andSignals.htm

(For the sake of good order may I point out to new marshals that you use these in Birmingham, Alabama, not Birmingham, England. )

[Hepatic]

you need a degree to understand all that lot!

i like the way yellow and leaking are the same action...i guess regs like that are a result of (compared to the uk at least) far less people on post due to the intervention teams al ot of circuits use?

[Alan Green]

Having experienced some of these for the first time last year, they can take some learning.

Admittedly I didn't get to (or try to) use all of them, but in a similar way to some UK circuits there was the need to get the message from the post chief (on landline comms up a tower overlooking the corner) to the flaggers some distance away at the flag point, or on the opposite side of the track, or even the next post up. Using face to face flagging technique meant that the yellow flagger with their back to traffic could watch the track and watch the post chief, while the blue flagger looked at the traffic head-on.

I can't remember that the signals we used were the same as the ones shown in the Michigan diagram, especially double yellow (which we used a lot for full course yellows that weekend), which was signalled as both arms straight out (as our rescue unit signal). It also helped when flagging from the point prior to the corner, which was blind, if something had happened the post chief could signal what level of flag was required (flat, waved or double) or if a change of surface flag was needed.

One useful thing that was signalled from post to post was pointing by the last car, so you knew you were clear to move.

'Checking' was another one used a lot (again, different to the diagram, was a palm held flat out and waved in a so-so or 50/50 type gesture). When you can't see the whole circuit and you don't have comms, the checking signal meant be ready, something's happened, and was usually followed by a double yellow.

Fortunately, the corner packs with the instructions and notes for the day had a reminder of the signals being used, so it was ok, but it will take a bit of refreshing next time

[bravo]

Them American signals are 'awesome'.

Love the 'leaking'

[Woolley]

Although disappointed with leaking gas. I think that could have been a lot more imaginative!

I tried doing one of the numbers once to a marshal who I knew was familiar with the signals. Unfortunately I got terminally lost half way through and ended up shouting. Was a waste of time because by then he was laughing so much he couldn't report it anyway.

[m1fcf]

The only thing that springs to mind there is "it's fun to stay at the Wrecker, Ambulance, Fire, Ambulance" followed by two verses of Dambusters for 'Flat tow' and 'Tiltbed'

:-o

[Dave Brand]

An excellent example of how to make a simple job complicated!

I prefer the Aussie system:

'What's that Skippy, you want to go for a leak?'

[M Greenslade]

I have got a few hand signals of my own that I use tee hee

Bladders..................

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

An excellent example of how to make a simple job complicated!

I prefer the Aussie system:

'What's that Skippy, you want to go for a leak?'

Unfortunately, I've seen that system in use at Bathurst. A flaw was discovered when skippy didn't make it all the way across the track...

[aland]

some of them could be useful like what kind of truck you need to get the car out of the kitty litter

agree we all use hand signals but not as listed there

[racerkeke]

I have news for you -- they probably don't use these in Birmingham, Alabama. They'll use a variant but not the identical signals. There's a LOT of regional differences in hand signals. I was trained in the Midwest so the Michigan signals are familiar to me, but when I moved to the West Coast I found some of my signals weren't familiar to others. One that isn't on the MTM list is "halfway", which in the Midwest is drawing your flat hand horizontally across your midsection, but in the West is holding your arms crossed at the wrist about shoulder height. Now I'm "bilingual", so at station meetings at the start of each day I often outline the signals I'm likely to use in the heat of the moment which aren't the "standard" for the area.

Also, leaking and spraying have different signals, and neither are quite like the picture!

Two signals my worker friends and I use a lot are missing from this list. One I picked up from the workers in Houston, Texas (means bull***t), and the other is used when you have four lonely cars wandering about for an interminable practice session, and means "Get me out of here NOW."

keke

PS I've actually used these hand signals at Brands Hatch, when I was flagging and Racegypsy was observer, and that was pretty much it for the corner crew. The turn set-up put us 30 feet apart, so they sure were handy.

[NICK ALLISON]

Over enthusiatic use of the "Green " signal could get you into BIG trouble !

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by racerkeke

Also, leaking and spraying have different signals

As well as different medication. You've seen the age of most of our observers..

[blueflagger]

I was gobsmacked to discover that you didn't use handsignals back when I first worked a UK race (many) years ago but discovered quickly that, because you had many more posts and workers than we did, it wasn't quite as necessary. The UK also doesn't communicate with Race Control in the same way as we do in North America so there hasn't been quite the demand for using signals so you can relay to RC what is happening 200 yards away from you.

It takes a bit of practice to understand some of the signals but many are almost intuitive to us because we use them elsewhere as well. The signal for "safe" is the same as a baseball umpire uses to say a player reached base before they were tagged by the other team. Pretending you are steering a car means "Driver". "Fire" and "Ambulance Now" are also hard to mess up and knowing them can speed up a call for the Rescue Crew.

We have lots of fun with the signals too. We can signal that a driver is a turkey, or that we are bored, or that there's a really nice looking guy (or gal) in the grandstands without having spectators know what we are saying. Of course, when spectators tell us that they can read our hand signals, it becomes time to change them.

[Woolley]

Completely without training in such matters I once communicated to my observer on the other side of the track that car 39 was peeing fuel on the track. He even managed to stop laughing long enough to report it.

[Saucy]

Heck, what another load of weirdness from the USA. Is it really all that necessary? Still if it does come over here and is brought into practice at UK circuits then before long you probably with be able to get a NVQ Level 3 in it, because that's how daft we can get

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by Saucy

Heck, what another load of weirdness from the USA. Is it really all that necessary?

You might think it is weirdness but we think of it as Standard Operating Procedure. It's been in place for at least 50 years, probably longer. It works well, so we use it. Besides, it can be loads of fun. We have a signal for "stirring the pot" which has the same racing effect as eating a pork pie without the indigestion.

We North American flaggies think some of your procedures and standards are weird. And that's not even counting the pork pie theory.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by blueflagger

You might think it is weirdness but we think of it as Standard Operating Procedure. It's been in place for at least 50 years, probably longer. It works well, so we use it. Besides, it can be loads of fun. We have a signal for "stirring the pot" which has the same racing effect as eating a pork pie without the indigestion.

We North American flaggies think some of your procedures and standards are weird. And that's not even counting the pork pie theory.

I tend to agree - but I've always had a local 'translator' to tell me what's being 'said'! In a noisy environment, its very good to convey information - and a morning briefing will sort you out with agreement on basic signals.

I worked out a few - 'under 5 minutes to go' is obvious when you know!

Do many of our American friends know what a pork pie is though [And would they eat it if they did?] I once almost fell off my chair laughing in a local pub while entertaining American customers to lunch - on their third straight day of having steak and kidney pie and chips, they asked about the 'kidney' - not realising that it was REAL kidney and therefore had been used by the animal for passing the p**s for months/years - and refusing to eat anymore.

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

Do many of our American friends know what a pork pie is though [And would they eat it if they did?] I once almost fell off my chair laughing in a local pub while entertaining American customers to lunch - on their third straight day of having steak and kidney pie and chips, they asked about the 'kidney' - not realising that it was REAL kidney and therefore had been used by the animal for passing the p**s for months/years - and refusing to eat anymore.

Most don't know what a pork pie is (and they may be better off for it IMO). But, as you know Squirrel, most of our "track" food is equally poor in nutrition and high in fat if a bit more flavorful.

Love the kidney story. I really dislike kidneys, but it's not because of what they are but because I can't stand the texture of them. Weird, I know.

I've designed a good hand signal for you on pork pies. I'll pass it on at Sebring or Long Beach, or wherever I see you next.

[Saucy]

Didn't mean to offend the USA in that comment regarding those signals, its just us Brits don't really like to over complicate things. And for those like me that are originally from Yorkshire, well we like to talk and we like what we say. So I think we would be better off shouting it and then it couldn't possibly be miss understood.

As for the Pork Pie thing well it is one of life's mysteries both on the circuit and on your plate.

[racerkeke]

Originally Posted by Saucy

So I think we would be better off shouting it and then it couldn't possibly be miss understood.

Huh? I can't hear you! What did you say?
keke

[Clive]

Originally Posted by Woolley

As well as different medication. You've seen the age of most of our observers..

Cheeky young wippersnapper!

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by Saucy

Didn't mean to offend the USA

No worries, not offended. But why not come on over and give it a try? You might find you like it. You'd be very welcome!

[theracegypsy]

Originally Posted by Saucy

Didn't mean to offend the USA in that comment regarding those signals, its just us Brits don't really like to over complicate things. And for those like me that are originally from Yorkshire, well we like to talk and we like what we say. So I think we would be better off shouting it and then it couldn't possibly be miss understood.

As for the Pork Pie thing well it is one of life's mysteries both on the circuit and on your plate.

It's not being over complicated, in fact it makes things easier. A bit like Hex is easier than machine code.

I find now I am bilingual. My American is nearly as good as my English (speech that is - with hand signals my American is far better )

But note, most Americans do not understand the words "Pork Pie" if they are in the same sentence

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by theracegypsy

But note, most Americans do not understand the words "Pork Pie" if they are in the same sentence

Ha! All Americans can understand putting those two words in the same sentence: "We had pork for dinner and pie for dessert."

Gypsy, you should know better than to say something like that when I am likely to read it and interpret it literally!

Most just can't wrap their heads around "pork pie" as a single entity.