Europe vs USA circuit differences

[997 brakedust]

Hi All,

New to the forum. Have been reading and learning alot since I discovered this forum.

Probably a very simplistic question - but I was wondering why in the USA is there is always a pit wall when over in Europe cars can pit and then be pushed right away into the garage if more work is needed? In the USA, cars have to be used around the wall and dodge alot of specators as they make their way to their trailer. Is it a IMSA rule?

Thanks,

[GT6]

Originally Posted by 997 brakedust

Hi All,

New to the forum. Have been reading and learning alot since I discovered this forum.

Probably a very simplistic question - but I was wondering why in the USA is there is always a pit wall when over in Europe cars can pit and then be pushed right away into the garage if more work is needed? In the USA, cars have to be used around the wall and dodge alot of specators as they make their way to their trailer. Is it a IMSA rule?

Thanks,

On european circuits the PIT wall is between the race track and the pit lane, I think this has been a safety rule since the accidents of the 50's.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by 997 brakedust

Hi All,

New to the forum. Have been reading and learning alot since I discovered this forum.

Probably a very simplistic question - but I was wondering why in the USA is there is always a pit wall when over in Europe cars can pit and then be pushed right away into the garage if more work is needed? In the USA, cars have to be used around the wall and dodge alot of specators as they make their way to their trailer. Is it a IMSA rule?

Thanks,

Welcome.

It could be related to safety or money. Our tracks (road courses) are generally not as well funded and do not have garages. Other than that, I have no idea. It is not an IMSA rule however, because all N.American tracks are set up the same way including the ovals.

[ger80]

Enjoy your tracks not having garages where the teams are hiding from you. Best joke was Kolles in Silverstone. "No, you cant get it in - Audi contract clause" on a 5 year old design

[joeb]

Originally Posted by ger80

Enjoy your tracks not having garages where the teams are hiding from you. Best joke was Kolles in Silverstone. "No, you cant get it in - Audi contract clause" on a 5 year old design

That is disappointing. Especially with the usual open and friendly nature in the ALMS paddock. I always thought of the garage as being more professional looking, but I appreciate the ALMS setup with the better access.

[Steve Tarrant]

Originally Posted by GT6

On european circuits the PIT wall is between the race track and the pit lane, I think this has been a safety rule since the accidents of the 50's.

GT6, I think you misunderstand the question.

On both sides of the pond, you'll find a pitwall between the pits and the track.

However, in America you'll find a second wall between where the car stops in its pit and the pit counter/crew. You therefore have to drive / be pushed to gaps in this wall to get back to your team awning (hence the phrase "going behind the wall") before any major work can be done on your car.

Watch any of the NASCAR or ALMS coverage on Sky/MotorsTV and you'll see this for yourself.

[fiend540]

It's probably something to do with insurance and health risks

[997 brakedust]

thanks for the replies. just seems to be an odd situation in the US when you have a long distance race. some teams are penalised by having their paddock quite a ways from their pit box. do like the access to the teams prior to the race though!

regrads

[CarolK]

Originally Posted by joeb

That is disappointing. Especially with the usual open and friendly nature in the ALMS paddock. I always thought of the garage as being more professional looking, but I appreciate the ALMS setup with the better access.

I disagree with all this. We've been to many European races where you can walk right into the garages and talk with the folks, look at the cars, etc. In fact during one of the Spa 24h races, the Vitaphone folks allowed garage access even during pit stops as long as you stayed behind the red line. ALMS at Laguna Seca had some teams using the few garages and no access there! The benefit of Petit is that only a chain link fence separates you from watching the team's monitors. We've also been able on Friday at the European races to walk pit lane. The teams can still "hide from you" even in ALMS. There's plus and minus to both ways.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by 997 brakedust

Hi All,

New to the forum. Have been reading and learning alot since I discovered this forum.

.....

Is it a IMSA rule?

welcome...

more money spent in Europe, IMO....and the aforementioned ovalness.
most US tracks seemed to have built concrete walls between the track and pit lane and pit lane to paddock...then laid some asphalt on some land and called it quits, pretty much.
does even Salt Lake have no direct access?
I guess Indy and Montreal are the only NA tracks that have this?

[Purist]

It would make sense for those two tracks as Indy and Montreal are the only recent F1 venues in North America.

[fjn356]

I have always thought it was for fuel related safety and, incidentally, to make distinctions of how many were working on the car easier. The fueling rig/race car proximity in Europe seems a little scary, but I have never seen or heard of any resulting fires.
And, by the way, I have had easy access to the teams in many European venues but never the ability to be right behind the pit/box area, as in many U.S. circuits. It seems less of an attitude than a layout issue, to me.

[Purist]

Kovy accidentally took his fuel hose away with him at Interlagos, and doused Kimi who was right behind him. Kimi's exhaust ignited the fuel and momentarily had the Ferrari lit up.

In 1994, Hockenheim saw the Benetton pit of Jos Verstoppen literally explode in a fireball when fuel dumped from the rig as the nozzle came off the car. The pit was fully engulfed and a substantial, thick, black cloud of smoke rose from the area while it burned. I believe at least four were taken to the hospital afterwards. Hockenheim also saw no fewer than three pit fires during the 1985 1000km race for the World Sportscar Championship.

There was a more minor episode when a small fire lit up on Michael Schumacher's car during a pitstop during the 2003 Austrian GP.

[Tim the Grey]

I suspect there may be an element of speed, here, too? NASCAR have the inner wall, but they also seem to have a LOT of cars, all pitting together, and incidents in the pitlane seem pretty common? In that case, it makes sense.
European pit lanes seem, to me, to be narrower. Lower pit lane speed limits. Plus, we have less predictable weather?

Feel free to point out where I'm wrong, this is uninformed speculation. Like most stuff in here...

[fiend540]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

I suspect there may be an element of speed, here, too? NASCAR have the inner wall, but they also seem to have a LOT of cars, all pitting together, and incidents in the pitlane seem pretty common? In that case, it makes sense.
European pit lanes seem, to me, to be narrower. Lower pit lane speed limits. Plus, we have less predictable weather?

Feel free to point out where I'm wrong, this is uninformed speculation. Like most stuff in here...

I don't think there is a large difference in pit road speed between the US and the rest of the world. As for Nascar's contact issues on pit road, when you have 30+ cars trying to pit at relatively the same time some contact is bound to happen, but lets be fair this type of stuff happens in all racing. It happened last year at Lemans on a far less congested pit road when compared to your typical Nascar race, realistically Nascar does a pretty good job of being clean on pit road when you consider how many times they pit each race and how many cars travel down pit road every time.

[JHamilton]

I just remembered that not all Nascar tracks have outer pit walls. Triovals typically don't.

The reasons above seem very logical to me, especially for Nascar.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

welcome...

more money spent in Europe, IMO....and the aforementioned ovalness.
most US tracks seemed to have built concrete walls between the track and pit lane and pit lane to paddock...then laid some asphalt on some land and called it quits, pretty much.
does even Salt Lake have no direct access?
I guess Indy and Montreal are the only NA tracks that have this?

Indy has both. The indycars use the section of pit lane with a wall.

[Purist]

Actually, typical European pit speed limit is 60kph (37mph), whereas typical NASCAR pit speed limit is 50-55mph. I think it's 60mph for the Indy 500 now. And as late as 1997, the pit speed limit for the Indy 500 was 100mph.

[Zurbert82]

F1's pit speed limit is typically 100 km/h, or 62 mph. It may vary especially at Monaco.

[Cuttlefish]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Indy has both. The indycars use the section of pit lane with a wall.

Laguna Seca also has both. Like Indy, the "second pitlane" runs adjacent to the normal pitlane so that the inner wall of the normal pitlane is the outer wall of the pitlane with garage access.

[Purist]

Zurbert, I'm quite certain that the 60kph isn't just for Monaco, and I think the pit speed at all the LMS races this year was 60kph as well.

The only recent exception to this in F1 that I can think of was 60mph in the pit section of the Indy pit lane, and then 75mph in the transition to the 500 pit lane until you reached the start/finish line.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Purist

Zurbert, I'm quite certain that the 60kph isn't just for Monaco

It's been increased from 80km/h to 100 for 2009.

[KSR88]

Safety. Pits with open garages can have cars run into them as almost happened last year at Le Mans. Fire can spread into a garage adjacent refueling and trap people..kinda doubt any US fire dept would approve it....and wouldn't permit it for construction. Crash safety was a much bigger concern before pit lane speed limits when cars would boil in at 100mph + and hit 130+ on exit back in the day.
Many US road racing circuits have garages--but all are separate from pit lane.

[fjn356]

I think KRS88 is right. The wall does tend to keep the pit fires from getting to the much larger and higher fuel supplies behind the wall. Certainly I am aware of pit fires in Europe, but I am not aware of any that got into the garages in Europe or behind the pit wall in the U.S.