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Old 5 Apr 2007, 21:58 (Ref:1884480)   #1
pauwilson
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pauwilson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Important - is your race truck over 7.5t???

Firstly I am a marshal, not a racer so I am in unknown waters here but I have some info that some of you guys may not be aware of yet that you really need to know.

Time to open a can of worms, this is for those of you with P/HGV race trucks over 7.5t or a combination of truck and trailer that could legally go over this weight.

You should be aware if you are not already that as of Wed 11th April 2007 you will now be subject to drivers hours rules as non commercial goods vehicles over 7.5t are no longer exempt from the rules (ie if you carry tyres,wheels, jacks, race car etc these are classed as non commercial goods).

Basically my understanding of it is that you now need to use tachographs and stick to the rules of using them, ie 45 min break after 4.5hrs driving and daily rest of 11 hrs etc.

See here for info - near the bottom of the exemption table

http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/cr...hoursrules.htm

I spoke with someone at the freight transport association today for clarification and apparently the impact is going to be huge on people with race transporters and large horseboxes. Strange thing is all the other amendments that kick in next week dont have a major impact on the commercial transport operation I am responsible for - seem a bit unfair
but its the law.
I suppose the way they look at it is an 18t truck is an 18t truck regardless of what is in the back, just as lethal and being private HGV does not make the driver immune from falling asleep at the wheel.

If anyone wants any advice I would give your local VOSA office a call, or drop me a PM and I will try to point you in the right direction.

Regards
Paul
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Old 6 Apr 2007, 11:17 (Ref:1884821)   #2
Eddy V
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Eddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridEddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
And in one go I'll add the following:

if you have a van (over 3.5 Tonne), very soon the max speed in Belgium will be 90 km/h. Those travalling to the Ring, Zolder or Spa, beware.
Strict policing will follow.
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Old 6 Apr 2007, 11:26 (Ref:1884825)   #3
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Originally Posted by Eddy V
And in one go I'll add the following:

if you have a van (over 3.5 Tonne), very soon the max speed in Belgium will be 90 km/h. Those travalling to the Ring, Zolder or Spa, beware.
Strict policing will follow.
They've already been limited to that in the UK since January so providing all owners of these vehicles have complied there shouldn't be a problem.

As for the drivers hours, it's not before time although I don't think it would make much difference as to whether race transporter drivers drive tired or not. They could quite easily use the time spent at a race meeting as daily rest or other work. Unless VOSA actually go into the race paddocks, who's to prove what the drivers of these vehicles are doing whilst not driving.
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Old 6 Apr 2007, 20:24 (Ref:1885116)   #4
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If the tacho must be used, then do you need an operator's licence too? This means taking a Certificate of Professional Competence exam. I couldn't see it on the link site.

Tidies up a loophole quite neatly. All these a professional team artics in the paddock labelled "not for hire or reward".

Eddy - damned good job I bought an estate car not a van
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Old 6 Apr 2007, 21:11 (Ref:1885137)   #5
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esper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
so your mondeo towing your singel axle caravan with food for 7 weeks and everything you own probably far over a ton, you can drive as long as you want. Probably to many voters drive these kinds of stuff......................strange world

eh 7,5 tons is combined total weight???
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 08:21 (Ref:1885310)   #6
pauwilson
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pauwilson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You wont need an o-licence for private usage, that is only for "commercial purposes" or for "hire or reward" . Hence the stickers on the cabs, providing they get no commercial gain through it, ie if their team was set up as a business then it is perfectly legal. You could argue over prize money though.
They are still required to stick to EU drivers hours rules though as of next week.
For info, it is possible to get a restricted o-licence without a CPC, although it basically only covers you for hauling your own goods in the UK.

Yeah it's madness, regardless of size and weight any motorised vehicle is a lethal weapon. The o-licence exemption is another weird rule, why should a commercial user legally have to do inspections on the vehicle around every 6 weeks yet the only maintenace a private user legally has to do is an annual MOT. I am sure that some of the "not for hire or reward" guys cover more miles than some small commercial operators.
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 08:30 (Ref:1885316)   #7
pauwilson
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pauwilson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Esper, yes it is over 7.5t combined - so a 7.5t truck is exempt at all times until you hang a trailer on the back that takes the combination over this weight. So if you have a 7.5t truck thats not fully loaded to the max weight which most problably will not be if you dont have a car in the back, you can tow a trailer and still be exempt providing if you run it over a weightbridge the combined weight at the time does not exceed 7500kg.
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 11:19 (Ref:1885384)   #8
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Yeah and now if you buy a big meaty 4x4 safely and much more efficiently than a silly estate car and well within GTW limits and will do the job fine the *astards will hit you for what £400 road tax! You just ain't gonna win with this lot, they hate the horse crowd and have dealt them the hunting ban and the jealousy element of this current government under the guise of the Global Warming linked to man's carbon emmisions con has now turned on owners of big cars wanna bet our sport will be next, mark my words.

Last edited by Al Weyman; 7 Apr 2007 at 11:24.
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 13:12 (Ref:1885415)   #9
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AU N EGL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAU N EGL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetman

Tidies up a loophole quite neatly. All these a professional team artics in the paddock labelled "not for hire or reward".
Specififcly here in the States the term "Not for Hire" is used for personal transports and are not subject to all the DOT ( Dept of Transportation ) rules.

Large transports, Huge Renegade Motorcoaches that tow huge 3 car rigs put this on the side and use personal Motorhome plates, not commercial plates ( tags) then no longer have to go though the DOT weight stations.

The biggest term, for themost part, it the 'For Hire" or to make a profit, then the vehical is subject to The DOT commercial laws.

Time may come when this will change.

Be sides I cant driver more then 2 hours without stopping for a pee. Age I guess.
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 16:43 (Ref:1885485)   #10
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a related question, while 'those who know' are on this thread.
If I have a 3.5 tonne van and tow a trailer and racecar, can VOSA or similar agencies make me unhitch the trailer and weigh just the van at a roadside weighbridge check, or will they only be looking at the aggregate weight of the entire rig? I do go perilously close to the 3.5 limit, it seems odd to me that I can be 'more legal' by shifting weight out of the van and onto the trailer.....
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 17:27 (Ref:1885504)   #11
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David, they will weigh the entire combination and take individual axle weights and do the calculations from there. It's the axle weights that most people fall foul of especially being overloaded on the rear axle of the tow vehicle.
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 18:26 (Ref:1885550)   #12
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Hmmm, thanks for that - think I'm gonna have to ask my wife to travel in the racecar
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 18:43 (Ref:1885562)   #13
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Originally Posted by falcemob
David, they will weigh the entire combination and take individual axle weights and do the calculations from there. It's the axle weights that most people fall foul of especially being overloaded on the rear axle of the tow vehicle.
I should have written "especially being overloaded on the rear axle of the tow vehicle when using cars or vans".
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Old 7 Apr 2007, 21:50 (Ref:1885684)   #14
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Coming back from knockhill many moons ago we got pulled in by the Cumbrian coppers and taken to a weighbridge. The weighbridge wasn't long enough to take the van and trailer together, so the van was weighed on its own with the trailer attached and then the trailer on its own but still attached. I was told the van rear axle was overweight a half cwt. After moving a generator and tool box to the trailer it was ok as the train weight was ok. I still got a ticket for this and decided to fight the case as the approach apron to the bridge was downhill and therefore the trailer was pushing down on the towbar and giving a false reading. The summons came through and I went all the way back to the bridge to take measurements and photo's. The bridge belonged to Spillers flour and after talking to the operator I found out that they were closing down and that the test certificate had run out. I went to the case and it was instantly dismissed and I was awarded cost ! This is the only time any money has ever come my way from the penal system.
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Old 8 Apr 2007, 21:32 (Ref:1886767)   #15
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mick dickens should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
to the best of my knolage of the law ALL DRIVERS, be it a mini or a 66 toner, are alll govend by the driving laws for hgvs. The only reason nothing is done about cars is they have no tacos so the poice can not prove easliy how many hours you have driven so nothing is done. Lets hope GB(grivious bodily harm to the wallet) dose not think of putting taxes on tacos or we will have to have 5
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 08:36 (Ref:1887758)   #16
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Mmm.. Tacos
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Old 13 Apr 2007, 15:08 (Ref:1890498)   #17
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A few years ago i worked for a tool hire company driving a Transit pick up.
We were told that if we hitched up a trailer therefore making the vehicle capable of being more than 35cwt gross we needed to fit and use tachos.

Are they changing this to include race transporters as well?
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