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Old 8 May 2012, 00:21 (Ref:3070933)   #101
Goat Boy
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Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Hmmm, it's a fine line though - if the line that isn't the racing line is faster even if it's longer then it should be a penalty I would have thought. As you say though, no protest from anyone...
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Old 8 May 2012, 01:37 (Ref:3070937)   #102
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Chappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridChappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
b195's summation was pretty much how I saw it.
Winterbottom squeezed back on Tander who returned serve... No harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned...

In terms of Tander vs. Reynolds, I'm guessing if Reynolds had of put exactly the same move on Tander 10 laps later, Tander would have left the gap open.. Judging by the return of serve on Winterbottom, I'm suggest that Tander wasn't overly happy about the rate at which cars were going past him and the red mist got the better of a driver who otherwise would have played a smarter game.... but all in all it's probably one of those "racing incidents" that happen from time to time.
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Old 8 May 2012, 02:48 (Ref:3070944)   #103
b195
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Hmmm, it's a fine line though - if the line that isn't the racing line is faster even if it's longer then it should be a penalty I would have thought. As you say though, no protest from anyone...
Yeah, I can see where you coming from. The issue at that corner with people running around the outside of the kerb comes from the position and size of the kerb I suspect.

In this instance, both cars were side-by-side (Whincup just a hair in front) as Winterbottom ran wide in the middle of the turn (most likely due to his narrow entry line).

It appeared as though Winterbottom was going to force Whincup on or past the kerb regardless of where Whincup wanted to go (although, as it happened, just as Whincup committed to going around the kerb, Winterbottom straightened up and left a sufficient gap). This had potential to be even further confused by D'Alberto's car just ahead which pitted just in front of Frosty.

From what I saw, it was not the only time someone who ran outside the kerb re-entered the track in that manner, and as with the other drivers, the driver who 'squeezed' moved over to allow the re-entering car room to resume on the traditional track surface. If drivers didn't feel using that 'runoff' was legitimate, I don't see why they would always feel the need to leave their competitor that space (apart from to avoid a potential accident - but when they are racing side-by-side they don't necessarily leave sufficient space either :-P)

If Winterbottom was clearly ahead when Whincup ran wide I might feel differently, and if Whincup had been behind and made a pass while being squeezed out wide while doing so I also might feel differently. Not necessarily enough to say it was wrong without having a specific set of circumstances, but probably.

However, had Whincup had been behind and made a pass having clearly always committed to running outside the kerb, that I would definitely consider to be wrong.

As I see it, the track outside the kerb is there as a safety net and not to be used to gain speed, unlike recent years in DTM where I have seen at several tracks all cars with all four wheels well outside the white lines for the boundary of the track 'surface', even at tracks used by F1 (where the F1 drivers would not be afforded the same leniency by the officials)

(the way I see it, if there was a wall there and Winterbottom had squeezed Whincup into that wall, then that would have been Winterbottom's fault (though as the same time, it would probably not have necessarily been wise of Whincup to have stayed there). As it was, Winterbottom did leave a gap and in a situation with a wall there Whincup possibly wouldn't have tried to hang around the outside (as the track would probably be dirty due to no-one else running there, but at Barbagallo it seemed to be clean enough due to other cars having run out wide also) and/or Winterbottom probably would've tried to leave a little bit more space. It would be different if the cars had been less side by side than they were at the point of divergence of exit lines on that lap)
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Old 8 May 2012, 05:40 (Ref:3070959)   #104
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The v8s (group A before and group C before them) have been running wide out of the last corner for 30 odd years, and why the kerb was placed there in the first place many moon ago so don't see it being a issue now..
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Old 8 May 2012, 12:15 (Ref:3071154)   #105
leothedrummer
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The safety car mix-up reminded me of David Besnard's win in the WPS car at Symmons Plains a few years back....remember that one?
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Old 8 May 2012, 12:59 (Ref:3071181)   #106
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Who do they pin this one on? Mr Schenken, or Thelma and Louise in the GTR?
Well the team owners interviewed seemed confidant that 'race management' instructed the safety car to pickup Lowndes as the leader. So it seems the GTR driver did as was told by Schenken.
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Old 8 May 2012, 23:36 (Ref:3071495)   #107
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TWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Race control always had the power to do a few extra safety car laps to sort out the mess...
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Old 9 May 2012, 00:04 (Ref:3071499)   #108
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
So what is the actual protocol? Are they meant to pick up the car that is leading out on the track, as per the timing monitor when the safety car is released?
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Old 9 May 2012, 03:05 (Ref:3071516)   #109
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So what is the actual protocol? Are they meant to pick up the car that is leading out on the track, as per the timing monitor when the safety car is released?
Not always, although that is the normal way of operating.

The safety car rules are in the V8 ops manual (division D I think) which are on the V8 website.

Worth downloading them and reading rather than me or others paraphrasing here.
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Old 9 May 2012, 04:22 (Ref:3071524)   #110
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Axeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAxeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
so, without a better system to alleviate it, Mr Schenken has stuffed up
http://www.v8supercars.com.au/champi...7/default.aspx
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Old 9 May 2012, 08:01 (Ref:3071584)   #111
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Sandgroper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
CL and a few others screwed over. Will be interesting to see if CL looses the title on this basis. So So Amateurish and we call ourselves a leader in motorsport.

Dont blame anyone for being p'eed off about this!
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Old 9 May 2012, 10:34 (Ref:3071660)   #112
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There were a couple of close ones yesterday. It will be interesting when there are a couple of cars fighting and the first one wants to pit.

And Stealthy, this time your wrong.
There is going to be a MONUMENTAL accident one day with the post turn 7 pit entry either a single driver losing control or two or more cars coming together. I would not want to be in the first pit bay after entry (looked like LDM)
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Old 9 May 2012, 12:17 (Ref:3071701)   #113
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There is going to be a MONUMENTAL accident one day with the post turn 7 pit entry either a single driver losing control or two or more cars coming together. I would not want to be in the first pit bay after entry (looked like LDM)
Yeah, a Tander/Reynolds or Gardner/Crompton (1994 I think?) style incident ie undercut/criss-cross seems like only a matter of time before it happens when someone pits with the entry as it now is on pit straight, which considering this is a 'clean sheet' design so to speak, is disappointing. The existing pits entry on the outside wasn't exactly ideal, however IMO the new pits entry is far worse.

Unfortunately, the other entry (coming off the previous straight) isn't that much better, with the possibility of a driver re-entering the track at 90 degrees to the circuit if they attempt to take the corner on pitlane too fast (even more likely if the circuit happened to be wet).

You could enforce the speed limit earlier to limit this, but you need to make sure you don't enforce it too much earlier otherwise you'll risk the possibility of a collision as someone brakes to enter pitlane who then gets hit from behind as the driver right behind him thought he was blocking him eg Patrese/Berger 1992 at Estoril.)
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Old 9 May 2012, 13:44 (Ref:3071747)   #114
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Why not use the long entry before turn 7? Scrap the one after it, and put a chicane in like we have at Bathurst. Seems the most logical idea.
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Old 10 May 2012, 10:23 (Ref:3072136)   #115
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Why not use the long entry before turn 7? Scrap the one after it, and put a chicane in like we have at Bathurst. Seems the most logical idea.
Umai Naa, what do you mean Logic and V8supercars do not go together
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Old 10 May 2012, 10:41 (Ref:3072150)   #116
NinnyMan
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Why not use the long entry before turn 7? Scrap the one after it, and put a chicane in like we have at Bathurst. Seems the most logical idea.
The intel I heard was that they didn't yet have a track license to use that pit entry.
How correct this is i don't know. One would think they would have just said that
rather then dithering so much on the matter???
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Old 10 May 2012, 10:53 (Ref:3072159)   #117
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Umai Naa, what do you mean Logic and V8supercars do not go together
Now that you mention it...



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The intel I heard was that they didn't yet have a track license to use that pit entry.
How correct this is i don't know. One would think they would have just said that
rather then dithering so much on the matter???
Didn't they use it initially in the bottom 50% practice sessions? Perhaps by then, someone had twigged and pulled them up on it.
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Old 10 May 2012, 11:53 (Ref:3072197)   #118
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Didn't they use it initially in the bottom 50% practice sessions? Perhaps by then, someone had twigged and pulled them up on it.
I missed those sessions, certainly the second two sessions they didn't.
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Old 10 May 2012, 13:18 (Ref:3072252)   #119
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formerf1champ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
FWIW, if they're not going to put out the sc at the end of the race for the incident at t1, then that should set the standard for when they should/n't. It's typically flaky use of the sc I reckon, like the end of Bathurst '06. It just needs for another car to crash into at a time when the sc would normally be out. Imagine had the first 3 got into a collision at t1 (particularly Davison), with the beached cars still there? Not as controversial as the earlier stuff up, but just as pathetic.
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