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Old 1 May 2015, 18:11 (Ref:3532679)   #2501
Artur
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Toyota could be running a harder tire compound. Last season they did that as it fit better with the demands on race day. China is a good example. Plus they are running the high downforce car, look at Audi's high downforce car's pace. Another thought was their setup. Are they running a setup expecting mixed conditions? There are a few things that could explain why theyre off pace if its not just down to the cars speed, which is the most logical conclusion.

Audi still uses last year's chassis, not just Toyota. And 1:57.3/1:57.5 is not 'barely' in the 57's from the #1.
They were running harder tires to the competition last year? Really? Audi was still double stinting while Toyota couldn't, iirc. Each team has tailored made tires. I never heard Michelin say which is softer/harder or whatever. Audi was still more consistent with the tires than Toyota, last year.

As for this quali, Audi had only one car on HD spec. Still, they were on Toyota's pace. With the #7 drivers, I bet the HD would be clearly faster than both Toyotas.

I'm betting #9 will still be faster on the race than both Toyotas. Let's wait and see
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Old 1 May 2015, 18:16 (Ref:3532680)   #2502
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2011 Audi knew that they would need to take all risks to win. The Pugs were faster but we all know the magic Audi is able to pull off at LeMans ^^
For sure in the particular moment in was stupid to make that move. But in the end they still won and that's all that counts. I think they would have made other decisions about their next year drivers if they wouldn't have won.
The Peugeots weren't always faster than the Audi's at LM 2011, it changed depending on the track conditions. For a large part of the race, the Audi was quicker.

Also an interesting, if extremely hypothetical scenario, if Lapierre did race for Toyota at LM and then that car wins it would make a fantastic redemption story. But I highly doubt that he will and the replacement would most likely be a Japanese driver for marketing reasons but only if Toyota know someone as fast as Lapierre would be
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Old 1 May 2015, 18:46 (Ref:3532687)   #2503
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I spoke to some Toyota chap in the pits today, he said that Naks is out for LM. He also said they are making their mind up on the third driver, as I mentioned it must be your reserve driver. He said no not at all we maybe get someone else.
Really? That's poor form if true. What's the point of having a reserve driver if they aren't called up when a regular is ruled out of the race? If they do get someone else in and it's not because Kobayashi has other commitments or outstanding reasons not to race (in which case, why be the reserve driver?) then I'd be livid if I was Kamui.

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Toyota could be running a harder tire compound. Last season they did that as it fit better with the demands on race day. China is a good example. Plus they are running the high downforce car, look at Audi's high downforce car's pace. Another thought was their setup. Are they running a setup expecting mixed conditions? There are a few things that could explain why theyre off pace if its not just down to the cars speed, which is the most logical conclusion.

Audi still uses last year's chassis, not just Toyota. And 1:57.3/1:57.5 is not 'barely' in the 57's from the #1.
Shanghai is spectacularly abrasive (and Spa ... isn't) so that comparison doesn't hold up. They could be gambling on mixed conditions tomorrow, but that implies that they already know that on pure pace they are licked.
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Old 1 May 2015, 18:50 (Ref:3532689)   #2504
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Really? That's poor form if true. What's the point of having a reserve driver if they aren't called up when a regular is ruled out of the race? If they do get someone else in and it's not because Kobayashi has other commitments or outstanding reasons not to race (in which case, why be the reserve driver?) then I'd be livid if I was Kamui.

Ey, I thought the exact same thing, soon as he wondered off I turned to a few friends and said **** me that's sly!! Then again they were sly with Lapierre and not including him in the championship win with Seb and Davidson.
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Old 1 May 2015, 19:54 (Ref:3532709)   #2505
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They were running harder tires to the competition last year? Really? Audi was still double stinting while Toyota couldn't, iirc. Each team has tailored made tires. I never heard Michelin say which is softer/harder or whatever. Audi was still more consistent with the tires than Toyota, last year.

As for this quali, Audi had only one car on HD spec. Still, they were on Toyota's pace. With the #7 drivers, I bet the HD would be clearly faster than both Toyotas.

I'm betting #9 will still be faster on the race than both Toyotas. Let's wait and see
Where did Audi double stint last year when Toyota couldnt? I recall they tried to do it at points last year and lost lots of time. Tailor made tires or not, they have harder or softer compounds. A 1:58 is not on the same pace as a 1:57. Just like Toyota wasnt on the same pace as the Porsche Still hopeful for the race pace.

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Really? That's poor form if true. What's the point of having a reserve driver if they aren't called up when a regular is ruled out of the race? If they do get someone else in and it's not because Kobayashi has other commitments or outstanding reasons not to race (in which case, why be the reserve driver?) then I'd be livid if I was Kamui.
The sportscar365 article has an interview with Vasselon that says Kamui is in for the seat. He won the role of reserve driver, I doubt its for Political reasons as someone suggested.

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Shanghai is spectacularly abrasive (and Spa ... isn't) so that comparison doesn't hold up. They could be gambling on mixed conditions tomorrow, but that implies that they already know that on pure pace they are licked.
How does that not hold up? They used a harder compound tire than Porsche did, thats the point. Using a softer compound could have done fine at China, but the pace would be compromised toward the end of tge stint. Not saying thats definitely what they did here, but that it may have been. Obviously theyre disappointed, the press release has the same tone. They say they can hope for better tire wear or weather, thats what we figured.
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Old 1 May 2015, 21:56 (Ref:3532744)   #2506
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Where did Audi double stint last year when Toyota couldnt? I recall they tried to do it at points last year and lost lots of time. Tailor made tires or not, they have harder or softer compounds. A 1:58 is not on the same pace as a 1:57. Just like Toyota wasnt on the same pace as the Porsche Still hopeful for the race pace.
Audi double stinted all the way in Spa, last year, while Porsche and Toyota only in parts of it. And Audi used the "‘high temperature’ SOFT" for that. Audi #1 even leapfrogged one of the Toyotas and finished 2nd with that.

On Bahrain, Porsche qualified on the ‘soft high temperature’ and used that for the whole race. Audi #1 and the Toyotas started on the "Medium". DiGrassi, started on the "Softs high temperature", on the other Audi. After the first stint, Audi saw that the Softs were consistent and, then, used them in both cars for the remainder of the race. Only Toyota kept on the Mediums Only team to double stint there was Rebellion.

At Interlagos, only Audi double stinted.

At China, Toyota used the "high temperature medium" for the whole race while Audi and Porsche used the "high temperature soft". Nobody double stinted and that shows how Toyota was the least consistent on tyres once more

At Fuji, again nobody double stinted. Toyota and Rebellion used the "low temperature soft" for the whole race while Audi and Porsche used the "high temperature soft". Here, you could say Toyota was marginally more consistent with the tires as a low temperature label suggests a more agressive one.

Finally, at CotA, Audi and Toyota started with the "Mediums" while Porsche with the "Softs". Audi was the only one to double stint there.

So, all in all, Audi was much more consistent with the tires in 2014.

If Toyota's hopes relies on only them double stinting tomorrow, I think they face a big surprise when everybody does it. And I mean all the 8 manufacturer LMP1s
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Old 1 May 2015, 22:04 (Ref:3532746)   #2507
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Hmm. So assuming no one has any real chances against the Porsches on the Kemmel straight in Lap 1....I really hope the porsche's slow down in the race.
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Old 2 May 2015, 00:07 (Ref:3532771)   #2508
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I hope Toyota are sandbagging hilariously.
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Old 2 May 2015, 00:45 (Ref:3532776)   #2509
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From the onboard cameras, only toyota did lift-and coast, which I think mainly caused such laptime gap.
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Old 2 May 2015, 00:48 (Ref:3532777)   #2510
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Audi double stinted all the way in Spa, last year, while Porsche and Toyota only in parts of it. And Audi used the "‘high temperature’ SOFT" for that. Audi #1 even leapfrogged one of the Toyotas and finished 2nd with that.

On Bahrain, Porsche qualified on the ‘soft high temperature’ and used that for the whole race. Audi #1 and the Toyotas started on the "Medium". DiGrassi, started on the "Softs high temperature", on the other Audi. After the first stint, Audi saw that the Softs were consistent and, then, used them in both cars for the remainder of the race. Only Toyota kept on the Mediums Only team to double stint there was Rebellion.

At Interlagos, only Audi double stinted.

At China, Toyota used the "high temperature medium" for the whole race while Audi and Porsche used the "high temperature soft". Nobody double stinted and that shows how Toyota was the least consistent on tyres once more

At Fuji, again nobody double stinted. Toyota and Rebellion used the "low temperature soft" for the whole race while Audi and Porsche used the "high temperature soft". Here, you could say Toyota was marginally more consistent with the tires as a low temperature label suggests a more agressive one.

Finally, at CotA, Audi and Toyota started with the "Mediums" while Porsche with the "Softs". Audi was the only one to double stint there.

So, all in all, Audi was much more consistent with the tires in 2014.

If Toyota's hopes relies on only them double stinting tomorrow, I think they face a big surprise when everybody does it. And I mean all the 8 manufacturer LMP1s
All those instances of double stinting didnt result in a win except COTA. And Audi won by luck on a stupid red flag call. So like I said, double stinting tires works, but only if youre actually gaining time.

Articus, I think Toyotas high d/f package just doesnt work as good here as Audi and Porsche. But the race is different. In fp3, Toyotas pace was comparable to the others. So we'll see how it goes with that and tire wear.
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Old 2 May 2015, 07:27 (Ref:3532826)   #2511
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Toyota could be running a harder tire compound. Last season they did that as it fit better with the demands on race day. China is a good example. Plus they are running the high downforce car, look at Audi's high downforce car's pace. Another thought was their setup. Are they running a setup expecting mixed conditions? There are a few things that could explain why theyre off pace if its not just down to the cars speed, which is the most logical conclusion.

Audi still uses last year's chassis, not just Toyota. And 1:57.3/1:57.5 is not 'barely' in the 57's from the #1.
The thing is, if they are running there high DF car, why were they so slow in sector two? They were slower than all the Audis and Porsches in that sector, where you need as much downforce as you can.
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Old 2 May 2015, 17:01 (Ref:3533125)   #2512
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The thing is, if they are running there high DF car, why were they so slow in sector two? They were slower than all the Audis and Porsches in that sector, where you need as much downforce as you can.
I think Toyota are F***ed. Sorry to be blunt, but the management has to be questioned about priorities here and i cant believe that TMC dint get a grip after how things went downhill in 2013 and think it's absolutely OK to carry on with the bare minimum towards TMG to develop the car in 2015. They are about to get a wake up call and as much of a fan I am of Toyota, im seriously questioning where their heads are at given this dismal performance from the team. If i was Akio Toyoda, i would get firing at the bean counters at TMC to make this the top priority for Toyota
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Old 2 May 2015, 17:34 (Ref:3533141)   #2513
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The thing is, if they are running there high DF car, why were they so slow in sector two? They were slower than all the Audis and Porsches in that sector, where you need as much downforce as you can.
In the wet from practice 2, they were fastest in sector 2, but not in the dry. I think there are setup problems. The #2 car is much slower than the #1. I wonder if the trio of drivers are as cohesive as the #1.

Complaining about budgets are useless. Akio cant change the board's minds. But next year things should be different. Even so, Toyota arent going to spend $200 million a year like Audi. I think the pace of the LM car better be spectacular, or they're in for a long year.
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Old 2 May 2015, 18:39 (Ref:3533216)   #2514
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At this rate I can't see any wins for the TS040 this year. They'd better put a lot of effort into next year's car and the new 8MJ powertrain, otherwise I can't see the 3-year commitment being honored.
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Old 2 May 2015, 18:47 (Ref:3533226)   #2515
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Three laps off the lead. Three laps.
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Old 2 May 2015, 18:59 (Ref:3533239)   #2516
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Appalling performance. The "high downforce" toyota was more than a second per lap slower in S2 than the "low downforce" Audi. Even more impressive than that is considering what a big advantage they had last year how could they have made such a tiny progress compared to the other two cars.
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Old 2 May 2015, 19:34 (Ref:3533261)   #2517
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Appalling performance. The "high downforce" toyota was more than a second per lap slower in S2 than the "low downforce" Audi. Even more impressive than that is considering what a big advantage they had last year how could they have made such a tiny progress compared to the other two cars.
The #2 car has always been slower. Going by the #1 car, they were able to do a low 1:59, which is 2-3 seconds faster than their low drag package from last year. Thats not "tiny progress". Porsche can use their hybrid whenever they want, and Audi has a big turbo diesel. Toyota's solution needs start/stop type tracks- just like Le Mans. I believe they have a good chance if their LM package is faster than the 'high' downforce one. You cant predict their pace. I think theyll be fine.
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Old 2 May 2015, 19:34 (Ref:3533262)   #2518
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they made quite a big progress too, but they were the fastest last year, i think they, just like most of us, didn't see such incredible improvements from audi and porsche coming. they were faster than the fastest peugeot 908s already, so you definitely can't call that slow.
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Old 2 May 2015, 19:38 (Ref:3533265)   #2519
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Yes in 2015 they are very slow. I don't see how you could look at a dry race, that is green for the whole duration, and try to find excuses for being more than 3 laps back.
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Old 2 May 2015, 20:03 (Ref:3533275)   #2520
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Another terrible performance by Toyota. I expect Le Mans to be a disaster. Not surprised by this unfortunately. Audi and Porsche really have made SIGNIFICANT gains. It doesn't matter if this year's TS040 is faster than last year's; what matters is the gains made relative to Audi and Porsche, and the relative gains haven't been good enough.

Honestly, I try to be a Toyota fan, but they give you SO many reasons not to be a fan.

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Complaining about budgets are useless. Akio cant change the board's minds. But next year things should be different. Even so, Toyota arent going to spend $200 million a year like Audi. I think the pace of the LM car better be spectacular, or they're in for a long year.
That's where you're wrong. You should get more knowledgeable of Toyota's history and their structure mate.

I've studied the company intensively, just out of genuine interest of how the operate versus other automakers.

Years ago, before Akio Toyoda was even CEO, the eldest most senior living Toyoda family member shook up the Toyota board, and gave Akio Toyoda more power in the company. That was shortly before he became CEO.

If you seriously don't think that the ruling Toyoda family can't change the board, you're wrong.

I place the accountability here right now primarily on Akio Toyoda. In Japanese culture, continued failure is DEEPLY dishonorable. So years ago, when the board was shaken up by the elder Toyoda family member, those ousted board members were deeply dishonored and humiliated for their incompetence. This was for incompetence that occurred during the early to mid 2000s.

So with this continued failure for TMG (not being able to be consistent winners, not being able to win Le Mans), Akio Toyoda has a duty to do whatever it takes to solve the problems. If he doesn't, he will look deeply dishonorable to the rest of the ruling Toyoda family.
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Old 2 May 2015, 21:14 (Ref:3533299)   #2521
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From their Post-race Spa press release, its seems they've been caught completely off-guard by the VAG brothers pace.
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Old 2 May 2015, 21:24 (Ref:3533302)   #2522
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Strewth the swingometer in here is ridiculous, two difficult races after a brilliant previous season and people are ready to throw them under the bus!?
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Old 2 May 2015, 21:49 (Ref:3533311)   #2523
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But was the Toyota really that bad today? They could fight with the #9 Audi which was the "high downforce" Audi and in fact had quicker best lap time than the #9. Assuming the Toyota's make the same leap with their low drag package that Audi does, Toyota will be right there or even a slight step ahead on the straights.
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Old 2 May 2015, 22:00 (Ref:3533314)   #2524
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That may be true if the #1 didn't have the throttle problem. The #2 finished about 30 seconds behind the #9 and the #1 could never get by the #2 in spite of the #1 being quite a bit faster until the problem.
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Old 2 May 2015, 23:45 (Ref:3533334)   #2525
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All those instances of double stinting didnt result in a win except COTA. And Audi won by luck on a stupid red flag call. So like I said, double stinting tires works, but only if youre actually gaining time.
The double stint worked for Audi, that's why they opted for it, just as today. Last year, they were seriously handicapped being on the 2MJ, so, even gaining time with double stints, it was far from enough to beat Toyota.

I'm a bit skeptical about the speculation(btw, I know it's not coming from you, TF110 ) that Audi spends 200 million Euros or Dollars a year. That is almost like big F1 team's budget.
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But was the Toyota really that bad today? They could fight with the #9 Audi which was the "high downforce" Audi and in fact had quicker best lap time than the #9. Assuming the Toyota's make the same leap with their low drag package that Audi does, Toyota will be right there or even a slight step ahead on the straights.
The problem with that comparison is that Toyota's "HD" car is much more suited to a track like Spa than Audi's HD car. Audi's got way more downforce/drag and that at Spa is more punished.

When F1 didn't have DRS, everybody ran Spa with almost Monza spec. Toyota's HD is closer to that while Audi's is pretty much an F1 Monaco spec car(highest downforce/drag)

Toyota surely won't be this bad at Le Mans, but a win is very unlikely unless their LM also made huge gains as did Porsche's and Audi's 2015 cars
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